And the Earth was without form, and void...

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Lucky 1

The biblical account of how the world began is what doesn't hold water...perhaps it is metaphor as is much of the bible???

Science has successfully turned back the clock on the "big bang" and as Slayer mentioned all matter in our universe is "stardust" being that all elements from hydrogen on up to actinide's were created in the belly of stars and distributed via supernova.

Science has traced the DNA origins of modern humans back more than 300,000 years to the Great Rift Valley of Ethiopia.....if ever there was in fact a biblical Garden of Eden....that's where it was!

As science and our understanding of how things began moves forward into the realm of hard undeniable facts, there are things that are now more evident then ever and more and more it is religion...NOT science that must make accommodations for the facts.

However....I do not find anything in the facts to dispel the idea that there was a creator....however un-involved he-she-it seems to be since pulling the trigger on creating the universe billions of years ago

What is the actual makeup of "dust"?
The "Big Bang", coined by one physicist by happenstance
is actually better described as, "The Big Shine", no?

There's no sound in space.

The O.P. is about what people THINK those 2 verses are saying in Genesis, rather than what they are actually saying.

TIME, is involved with motion.
Action and reaction. Consequences of which are aging, decay, and, "death".
Which was non existent apparently in, "Paradise".
Something changed.

A greater reality involves the timeless.

[sky]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Tohu va bohu OR Tohu wa-bohu (תֹ֙הוּ֙ וָבֹ֔הוּ)

God does not create tohu.(Definition: formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness.)

The earth BECAME tohu.

God does not create bohu. (Definition: emptiness)

The earth became bohu.

Gen.1 v.1 and v.2 The heavens and earth where created.

It was turned into waste and became void and formless.

Then we come to gen.1 v.3

So what of it Morph?

The Bible gives it little importance so why should I make it important?

Interesting Post, I enjoyed reading it

What does ' Emptiness ' mean to you ?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

What is the actual makeup of "dust"?
The "Big Bang", coined by one physicist by happenstance
is actually better described as, "The Big Shine", no?
There's no sound in space.

The O.P. is about what people THINK those 2 verses are saying, rather than what they are actually saying.

TIME, is involved with motion. Action and reaction. Consequences of which are aging, decay, and, "death".
Which was non existent apparently in, "Paradise".
Something changed.

A greater reality involves the timeless.

But decay and death of the physical body brings life.....

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by sky123

But decay and death of the physical body brings life.....

LIFE is more and other than the organic. Spirit, involving the timeless is the greater reality and truth.

Which was the situation in, "Paradise", before the fall, sky.

Obviously, and apparently, according to God's Word, something changed involving time.

"Evolution" also occurred in the situation of time.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

LIFE is more and other than the organic. Spirit, involving the timeless is the greater reality and truth.

Which was the situation in, "Paradise", before the fall, sky.

Obviously, and apparently, according to God's Word, something changed involving time.

"Evolution" also occurred in the situation of time.

Can't comment as I don't believe in paradise or fall.....

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by sky123

Can't comment as I don't believe in paradise or fall.....

Yes. You've said so. Which demonstrates a lack of reasoning ability.
As I've demonstrated here.

There is some accuracy to what neil posted. A greater reality is what underlies and supports the material universe, dependent upon and residing in time.

Light, energy, Spirit...
Involving the timeless.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Yes. You've said so. Which demonstrates a lack of reasoning ability.
As I've demonstrated here.

Yes you probably do lack ' reasoning ability '.
When you imagine something in others, it's usually a mirror image of yourself

Originally Posted by sky123

Interesting Post, I enjoyed reading it

What does ' Emptiness ' mean to you ?

For the reference of the verses. Gen. 1 v.3 & Jer.4 v. 23 which are the only places Bohu and Tohu are used.

The word bohu which is translated void, my reference material says
it is actually vacuity (an undistinguishable ruin)

So I think emptiness here is different than the Buddhist emptiness.

I feel like you are going to try to do a Taoist mind trick on me.

Go ahead I will be waiting between breaths.

Also around my house emptiness seems to mean a space that always gets filled.LOL

[sky]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

For the reference of the verses. Gen. 1 v.3 & Jer.4 v. 23 which are the only places Bohu and Tohu are used.

The word bohu which is translated void, my reference material says
it is actually vacuity (an undistinguishable ruin)

So I think emptiness here is different than the Buddhist emptiness.

I feel like you are going to try to do a Taoist mind trick on me.

Go ahead I will be waiting between breaths.

Also around my house emptiness seems to mean a space that always gets filled.LOL

No tricks, I really enjoyed your Post as I hadn't heard those words Bohu and Tohu before.
Yes it's different to Buddhists Emptiness which is sometimes called Voidness.

Yes most people do look to fill empty spaces with more items, I am known in my Family/Friends as the ' Thrower outer ' I hate clutter and usually
leave spaces empty when possible . Maybe subconsciously I'm thinking, that space is there for a reason just incase I feel the need to fill it The mind is a strange thing.

So ' Emptiness ' to me is fullness, full of potential.

Emptiness seems to be negative or an unwanted condition to some and the opposite to others. One little word with so many different interpretations.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by sky123

Can't comment as I don't believe in paradise or fall.....

So, when one looks up "Paradise", two things are brought out.

One definition is the environment of Adam and Eve before the fall.

The other is, "The Kingdom of Heaven".

Point to be made is that the situation of Adam and Eve was an angelic situation, wherein time and it's consequence was not a factor.

Which is not the situation, since.

Time began of course at the beginning of this present universal situation, in which we find ourselves, and since Einstein, is regarded as "illusory".

Very often people think they understand scripture, giving them reason to disregard it. But they don't.