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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #1  
Old 01-04-2019, 08:26 AM
Joe Mc Joe Mc is offline
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The Rope is Mistaken for the Snake, What does this mean to you ?

The Rope is mistaken for the Snake is a classical illusion that was popularised by Advaita Vedandists in India. Is this illusion useful ? Have you any views on what it means ?
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:09 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mc
The Rope is mistaken for the Snake is a classical illusion that was popularised by Advaita Vedandists in India. Is this illusion useful ? Have you any views on what it means ?




I think that some use this analogy in order to use it in a certain way that encompasses the mind reality as not being as it seems to be.

What I would say is that the rope might be mistaken for a snake and vice versa but it has always been what it is.

The snake has always been a snake the rope has always been a rope so to use the analogy that reflects an illusion doesn't work for me, but it does show us how things are mistakenly perceived.


x dazzle x
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:14 AM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mc
The Rope is mistaken for the Snake is a classical illusion that was popularised by Advaita Vedandists in India. Is this illusion useful ? Have you any views on what it means ?



It means I need to book an appointment with an Optition
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  #4  
Old 01-04-2019, 09:46 AM
Joe Mc Joe Mc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
It means I need to book an appointment with a Optition

And who might this optician be ? Scratching my chin, God himself ? The Higher Self ? hahaha very insightful reply that no pun intended
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Too much intellectual pride and not enough intellectual beauty

To Thine own Self be True

The Frost performs its secret ministry,Unhelped by any wind. Samuel Taylor Coleridge

And you won't find that Love comes easy but that Love is always right.So even when the dark clouds gather you will be the light.

All Intellect falls prey to Love's Glory ! Rumi

He Made the Lock, He also Made the Key ! Rumi
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  #5  
Old 01-04-2019, 10:54 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Patanjali's Yoga Sutras refer to five modifications of consciousness (Book I, 6-11):

1. Direct perception, based on fact and proof
2. Misperception - mistaking something for something else
3. Imaginary knowledge which has no substantial basis
4. Sleep which is the absence of perception
5. Memory which is the recollection of past perceptions.

The story of the rope and the snake is often used to illustrate the second modification - ie misperception.

Peace.
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:58 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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as usual I look at what things DO. Ropes are for climbing, tieing, other things... e.g. they are a beneficial thing to be used. OTOH snakes aren't so much liked, and many people are even afraid of them. So if you were to mistake a rope for a snake you would possibly avoid it instead of using it to help yourself out? And depending on the situation that misunderstanding could be disastrous...
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Old 02-04-2019, 12:29 AM
guthrio guthrio is offline
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The Rope is Mistaken for the Snake, What does this mean to you ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mc
The Rope is mistaken for the Snake is a classical illusion that was popularised by Advaita Vedandists in India. Is this illusion useful ? Have you any views on what it means ?

Hi Joe Mc,

I had the occasion to use this "rope" analogy in the reference, below. Ironically, it just occurred to me that use of the words Rope or Snake, is really only useful if those who utilize them remember that the difference (and usefulness) of either becomes moot without understanding what they mean in context.

One person's "Rope" may not necessarily be another person's "Snake", right?

Reference: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...3&postcount=19
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“Why, that’s true! I am a perfect, unlimited gull!” Jonathan opened his eyes asking, "Where are we?” The Elder Chiang said, “We’re on some planet with a green sky and a double star for a sun.” Jonathan made a scree of delight. “IT WORKS!" “Well, of course it works, Jon,” said Chiang. “It always works, when you know what you’re doing." (and even when you don't)
http://csermelyblog.tehetsegpont.hu/...ir%C3%A1ly.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8COt1n3jDqA&t=19s
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Old 02-04-2019, 05:14 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mc
The Rope is mistaken for the Snake is a classical illusion that was popularised by Advaita Vedandists in India. Is this illusion useful ? Have you any views on what it means ?
Namaste.

The Rope vs Snake analogy was used to illustrate the Advaita Vedantic term for Mithya or Mithyatva (false perception) as being in a relativist distinction from the general term of Maya or illusion which was used at the time.

It is an analagous representation of how our conditioned biases (e.g fear) also known as vasanas, can distort the perception of reality (Brahman) through sensory cognition...also called karmendriyas.

Thus, we are not experiencing an "illusion", but a distorted form of reality...mithya (which gave rise to the English word, myth).

This tale later became extrapopated in the form of The Six Blind Men and The Elephant...showing how false perception (Mithya) will remain thus, no matter how many mithyavadis (ignorant people) are involved and how human beings are very proud in their arrogance with their ability to "know" things...and as sad as it is, for many, their ego still is unable to admit that the "snake" is really a "rope" even after being shown thus.
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:28 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Similarly, the human mind and sensory array will always display a selective preference towards a predetermined notion or held belief. This is called a confirmation bias.

For example, the first person will see the "rope" as a "snake" due to the fear vasana which alters perception through the karmendrias, so what is "rope" actually appears as "snake" and remains "snake" until such times as the person becomes convinced: "not snake...rope".

Now, in the dark (ignorance) a person may think the rope is a snake...another may come along who that person particularly dislikes and they will say "don't be ridiculous! that is not a snake, it is a rope!" however, because the person who sees the rope as a snake hates them, they will never believe it! yet, if a friend comes along and says the same thing, they will believe it without question...at what point did the truth change?

Some people will only believe what their guru says...what their teacher says...what their doctor says...

Now, I can (and often will) say exactly the same thing as their guru, teacher, doctor etc...but for some reason (I am still trying to fathom it) it is not true just because "I" said it...and yet, if anybody else who they love/respect says it, it tends to "gain truth" all of a sudden...was it "not true" before this? because when I point it out that I said exactly the same thing days ago, they deny that I even said it, which always means that they conveniently forgot I ever said it and NOT that I did not ever say it.

For "repeat offenders", I have covertly and secretly recorded these conversations...so when they are in full denial of either myself or themselves having said what they did, I play back the recording....then they will say that is not their voice! I must have found somebody else who sounded an incredibly a lot like them...I then resort to "voice recognition software" but they STILL deny it!

For such people, a snake is NEVER a rope, simply because they say so and anybody who believes differently can go to hell.

Which leaves me with one lingering question....why oh why do I seem to attract these types of people into my life? what bad karma did I do?
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Old 02-04-2019, 08:02 AM
Joe Mc Joe Mc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Patanjali's Yoga Sutras refer to five modifications of consciousness (Book I, 6-11):

1. Direct perception, based on fact and proof
2. Misperception - mistaking something for something else
3. Imaginary knowledge which has no substantial basis
4. Sleep which is the absence of perception
5. Memory which is the recollection of past perceptions.

The story of the rope and the snake is often used to illustrate the second modification - ie misperception.

Peace.

Thank you for sharing this knowledge. I really respect what it says and it's useful too. I've heard of Patanjali of course and glanced at some of his stuff in the dark and distant past. He is a very respected teacher and his knowledge i would say echoes with the reverberations of his own culture and tradition and personal insights of course. Thank you very much for sharing, most kind. Namaste.

* in my original question i misspelled the word Allusion using the word Illusion instead. Apologies.
__________________
Too much intellectual pride and not enough intellectual beauty

To Thine own Self be True

The Frost performs its secret ministry,Unhelped by any wind. Samuel Taylor Coleridge

And you won't find that Love comes easy but that Love is always right.So even when the dark clouds gather you will be the light.

All Intellect falls prey to Love's Glory ! Rumi

He Made the Lock, He also Made the Key ! Rumi
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