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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Lifestyle > Vegetarian & Vegan

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  #21  
Old 05-04-2019, 02:43 PM
Lucky 1 Lucky 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphirez
Of course humans are unique, but our intestines and bodies most closely resemble frugivorous mammals, not herbivores, omnivores or carnivores. pretty sure about that but I could be wrong and am open to a more detailed discussion where a variety of information and sources are consulted to reach the most valid conclusion.

In the same token I think it's safe to suggest that humans are designed to eat food that is alive, which naturally discludes old dead meat, and things that require cooking before consuming which rules out a lot of other foods which many misconstrue as ideal or viable candidates for the best staples of our diet. Food that is alive contains negative ions, electric and magnetic properties and other things we thrive off of that are destroyed with cooking and excessive processing.


In no way shape or form do humans have a digestive system resembling a frugivore......we are not frugivores....period!

We are omnivores with a digestive system that looks pretty much exactly like other omnivorous animals such as pigs and chimpanzees.

And just like every other animal on this planet with canine teeth....we are well equipt to eat and digest animal proteins.

I will agree with you that a certain amount of raw foods are both good and necessary.....on the other hand there are any number of foods that are more nutritious cooked because the act of heating them makes the nutrients bio-available. Both tomatoes and spinach come to mind.

In the case of certain cruciferous vegetables like spinach....the available nutrients are tied up by oxalates which heating releases.
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2019, 03:03 PM
Sapphirez Sapphirez is offline
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When I asked you to compare a picture of human teeth to that of a true carnivore you somehow didn't see how completely different they are, and that concerns me. These teeth are not designed to rip apart live or dead animals, I don't know how we could even be arguing about that. The human body is not designed to digest dead animals, and dead anything is detrimental to life that thrives on life to survive. I don't see you talking about us eating alive or freshly killed animals, which is preferable to most carnivores, right?

Heating food may change the chemistry and unlock certain nutrients, but that doesn't mean that the form of them is superior or comparable, or that the other casualty of the cooked food in its entirety is not going to ultimately be more detrimental than beneficial in its distorted form. It's acidic among other things, just like dead animal meat is, not to beat a dead bush... er you know what I mean

I think you are right about a lot of vegans being misguided and doing it wrong, and discussing that is worthwhile if we're getting to the truths of the issues. I meant that constructive criticism with a purpose for reaching higher truths is ok but criticism just for the sake of bashing and spreading negativity is not all right. And rereading the title of your thread makes me laugh because it definitely is not in the spirit of the first. I appreciate your renewed reasoning in your last two posts, though I still think that you have depths to pierce on the subject of raw food and frugivorism specifically. I wish that you would do more examination about the claims you're making or facts you are trying to dispute because from what I've seen humans do most closely resemble frugivores. There are all sorts of body parts and processes that we can explore to find the reality
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2019, 03:10 PM
Lucky 1 Lucky 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphirez
When I asked you to compare a picture of human teeth to that of a true carnivore you somehow didn't see how completely different they are, and that concerns me. These teeth are not designed to rip apart live or dead animals, I don't know how we could even be arguing about that. The human body is not designed to digest dead animals, and dead anything is detrimental to life that thrives on life to survive. I don't see you talking about us eating alive or freshly killed animals, which is preferable to most carnivores, right?

Heating food may change the chemistry and unlock certain nutrients, but that doesn't mean that the form of them is superior or comparable, or that the other casualty of the cooked food in its entirety is not going to ultimately be more detrimental than beneficial in its distorted form. It's acidic among other things, just like dead animal meat is, not to beat a dead bush... er you know what I mean

I think you are right about a lot of vegans being misguided and doing it wrong, and discussing that is worthwhile if we're getting to the truths of the issues. I meant that constructive criticism with a purpose for reaching higher truths is ok but criticism just for the sake of bashing and spreading negativity is not all right. And rereading the title of your thread makes me laugh because it definitely is not in the spirit of the first. I appreciate your renewed reasoning in your last two posts, though I still think that you have depths to pierce on the subject of raw food and frugivorism specifically. I wish that you would do more examination about the claims you're making or facts you are trying to dispute because from what I've seen humans do most closely resemble frugivores. There are all sorts of body parts and processes that we can explore to find the reality

Why are you comparing our teeth to those of carnivores??? Of course they are completely different!!!

Again....Humans ARE NOT carnivores.....we are omnivores and have the teeth and digestive system of an omnivore.

And yes....our canines are well adapted for "cutting through animal tissue" and work quite well for that just like the canines of every other omnivorous species on the planet.
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  #24  
Old 05-04-2019, 04:08 PM
Sapphirez Sapphirez is offline
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I don't think that they do lol most people when eating meat do not get it chewed up into a pulp or otherwise fine enough consistency, even if they chew the recommended 30 or whatever times.. and meat may be bioavailable in some senses, but overall it is very difficult to digest, taking more than several hours, if it even is digested sufficiently, and the dead tissue is acidic so that has a detrimental toll on the body. Some species that prefer to eat primarily fruit have quite impressive looking canine teeth but that doesn't mean they are meant for picking apart live or dead animals. And ours don't look like that anyways, if you do the fraction ratio math it is rather puny how our canine teeth compare

We do not have the teeth and digestive systems of an omnivore, this is a topic that deserves to be looked into openly with depth, which is what I'm here to do if you are
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  #25  
Old 05-04-2019, 04:19 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Making tools and fire, and cooking food is something we discovered and just because other animals don't do it (tools aside) it doesn't mean it's 'unnatural'. If raw veganism wants to live like our distant ancestors.. without using fire, without cooking you'd have to get back to a way of life in which you have to incorporate scavenging corpses..!

Or do you want to get back even further in time..
Where do you draw the line, Sapphirez?
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  #26  
Old 05-04-2019, 04:25 PM
Lucky 1 Lucky 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphirez

We do not have the teeth and digestive systems of an omnivore, this is a topic that deserves to be looked into openly with depth, which is what I'm here to do if you are


Nope....I'm not even remotely interested in getting into a discussion about whether or not we have the teeth and digestive system of an omnivore.....the fact that we are an omnivore is well established science and anything to the contrary just amounts to a bunch of malarkey!
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  #27  
Old 05-04-2019, 05:55 PM
Miko Miko is offline
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You'll find that these people were doing crazy things like fasting for long periods of time, drinking their urine, or eating all raw diets. This is not something I would recommend at all as a vegan because of course your going to end up with problems if you do that. I've been vegan/vegetarian for 7 years and have absolutely no health problems. I got my blood work done not too long ago and my doctor gave me an A+ for health.
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  #28  
Old 05-04-2019, 07:04 PM
Sapphirez Sapphirez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Making tools and fire, and cooking food is something we discovered and just because other animals don't do it (tools aside) it doesn't mean it's 'unnatural'. If raw veganism wants to live like our distant ancestors.. without using fire, without cooking you'd have to get back to a way of life in which you have to incorporate scavenging corpses..!

Or do you want to get back even further in time..
Where do you draw the line, Sapphirez?

It is "unnatural" because it grossly goes against nature, which is ideal in its "natural" state. Some creatures are adapted to consume tough things like many grains and legumes in their natural state, raw, obviously we are not.

Where I draw the line is where nature draws it, where the scales of the given food are tipped more against our favor than for or in it. I'm eating rice and corn tortillas with beans and cooked vegetables as I type this (Chipotle's) so I can assure you I wish these types of things were actually healthy for us, but unfortunately they're not
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  #29  
Old 05-04-2019, 07:16 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphirez
Some creatures are adapted to consume tough things like many grains and legumes in their natural state, raw, obviously we are not.
It works fine for most people. There are people with intolerance to fruits, nuts, or dairy..
Doesn't say anything about humanity as a whole, just shows nature is varied and not ''designed'', perfect or fixed..
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  #30  
Old 06-04-2019, 03:33 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky 1
In no way shape or form do humans have a digestive system resembling a frugivore......we are not frugivores....period!


There are no frugivore hominids. Apes are omnivores. If there is an 'appeal to nature' argument, that's the end of it.


Quote:
We are omnivores with a digestive system that looks pretty much exactly like other omnivorous animals such as pigs and chimpanzees.

And just like every other animal on this planet with canine teeth....we are well equipt to eat and digest animal proteins.

I will agree with you that a certain amount of raw foods are both good and necessary.....on the other hand there are any number of foods that are more nutritious cooked because the act of heating them makes the nutrients bio-available. Both tomatoes and spinach come to mind.

In the case of certain cruciferous vegetables like spinach....the available nutrients are tied up by oxalates which heating releases.
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