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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Lifestyle > Vegetarian & Vegan

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  #21  
Old 16-10-2018, 12:42 PM
Baile Baile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah nam
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
Why are humans singled out as evil in this, and the animals get a pass?
We as the human race are meant to have evolved from second density to third density.
Ah yes. Thank you.

Truth always makes me go "Ahhh..." Like a content sigh.
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  #22  
Old 16-10-2018, 12:54 PM
Baile Baile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pagandell
Beautiful,inspiring and informative words.
Oops, missed that, and thank you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pagandell
We are having a very sensitive discussion... My heart wisdom tells me its o k for animals to do what they do.
Speaking of heart wisdom and animal behaviour, one could also ask how is it the lion lay at the feet of the master. The level of dialogue depends entirely on one's desire to raise it up.
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  #23  
Old 16-10-2018, 01:02 PM
Baile Baile is offline
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Francis' devotion to God was expressed through his love for all of God's creation. St. Francis cared for the poor and sick, he preached sermons to animals, and praised all creatures as brothers and sisters under God.

If one listens closely, they can hear angelic toning while reading this. The music of the spheres. That's how one recognizes heart wisdom and truth. Ahh.
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  #24  
Old 16-10-2018, 01:22 PM
Baile Baile is offline
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The porcupine in the room...

This past summer a porcupine began showing up every morning around 3 am to scrounge for left-over bird seeds. I'm up every morning at 3 am, and so I began to go outside and put seeds out for the porcupine. And sure enough the porcupine showed up like clockwork each morning.

After 2-3 weeks of this routine, the porcupine was at the door each morning, waiting. I would open the door and it would stick its nose in as if to say, "Hi I'm here, where's my breakfast?" I had to carefully open the door to get out because it wouldn't move! I would step out and walk over to the feed area, and the whole time the porcupine would be following along 3-4 feet behind me.

FallingLeaves, you ask why people persist in thinking animals are "comparitively 'pure' creatures". This story is why.
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  #25  
Old 16-10-2018, 01:30 PM
Pagandell Pagandell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baile
Oops, missed that, and thank you!Speaking of heart wisdom and animal behaviour, one could also ask how is it the lion lay at the feet of the master. The level of dialogue depends entirely on one's desire to raise it up.

I share a vibe with the foxes in the garden down stairs from my kitchen window I just give out the vibe and they look in my direction and we gaze at each other and then when I look away from them they instantly look away as well.
What I do is I take on there vibe first and it kind of vibrates through my body and then they take on my vibe we just look at each other for a little while but they can not see me from my kitchen window but they look directly at me.
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  #26  
Old 16-10-2018, 09:06 PM
Starlight Starlight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pagandell
I share a vibe with the foxes in the garden down stairs from my kitchen window I just give out the vibe and they look in my direction and we gaze at each other and then when I look away from them they instantly look away as well.
What I do is I take on there vibe first and it kind of vibrates through my body and then they take on my vibe we just look at each other for a little while but they can not see me from my kitchen window but they look directly at me.

They can sense you. Its amazing isnt it. I love natures wonders.
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  #27  
Old 17-10-2018, 01:56 PM
Pagandell Pagandell is offline
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Color A Real Man.

You can always tell something about a man by the arrangement of his flowers .
Or by his gun which gives him special powers.
And by the way he spits you in the eye, or by the way he's not afraid to cry.

You can always tell something about a man by the way he rules the world in his own kind of way.
And by all the things he never seems to say.

You can always tell a real man by the way he scratches his crutch and says all this hippy stuff is all to much.
And by the way they all laugh at the same old joke, which is always about more sensitive folk.

And how they hold there heads up high proud of the fact they never try to stop the suffering they create......... so there you go mate.
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How many times does an angel fall.

How many people lie instead of talking tall.

quote David Bowie Black Star.

Last edited by Pagandell : 17-10-2018 at 03:17 PM.
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  #28  
Old 17-10-2018, 01:59 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
Just for the sake of conversation, FWIW many animals eat other animals. Where is the indignation about THAT?

And why do we persist thinking animals are comparitively 'pure' creatures when they are just as likely to kill each other and/or us as we are them?

Why are humans singled out as evil in this, and the animals get a pass?

You're right, the predators do eat other animals. The cats in particular, are obligate carnivores which means their physiology requires meat and generally speaking, they respond to their food needs as a matter of instinct and availability. That's why they aren't 'evil'. Carnivore's bodies are designed to eat meat and their function is purely to control herbivore numbers.

Our physiology on the other hand, is actually more like that of herbivores. From the design of our teeth and entire digestive system to the kinds of digestive acids that our bodies produce, we are clearly more like plant eaters.

And here's something to further encourage acceptance of that statement. People who are suffering from heart disease, diabetes, MS, arthritis, some cancers, etc., will usually see a reversal of the disease when they drop the meat and dairy from their diet. But if you drop veggies from your diet, you're health will decline and eventually you'll die. Early explorers discovered that and made sure to bring some kind of veggies along with the salt pork or whatever they carried. So dropping meat and the subsequent return to health indicates that meat is not an appropriate food for us.

Also, while your puppy can chow down on the contents of the cat's litter box with relative impunity, you and I don't have digestive enzymes that are strong enough for us to survive that. They can eat animals that have been dead for a while, but the bacteria would take us out. Hence, they are designed to eat meat and we aren't.

I guess as far as your 'purity' suggestion, wouldn't that point more to their responding only to instinct and immediate need? Whereas we humans have a tendency to make plans that easily ignore not only our own need (peace in the present?) for the sake of a greater gain that may hurt vast numbers of other people, animals or the environment. Now that is evil in my opinion.
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  #29  
Old 17-10-2018, 03:12 PM
Lucky 1 Lucky 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debrah
You're right, the predators do eat other animals. The cats in particular, are obligate carnivores which means their physiology requires meat and generally speaking, they respond to their food needs as a matter of instinct and availability. That's why they aren't 'evil'. Carnivore's bodies are designed to eat meat and their function is purely to control herbivore numbers.

Our physiology on the other hand, is actually more like that of herbivores. From the design of our teeth and entire digestive system to the kinds of digestive acids that our bodies produce, we are clearly more like plant eaters.

I'm sorry but this isn't even remotely true......

Here are excepts from the most recent studies as reported in "Scientific America"

How eating meat made us human.

Science doesn’t give a hoot about your politics. Think that humans are inherently vegetarians??? Sorry, but you’re wrong.

Vegans are absolutely right when they say that a plant-based diet can be healthy, varied and exceedingly satisfying, and that—not for nothing—it spares animals from the serial torments of being part of the human food chain. All good so far.

But there’s veganism and then there’s Veganism—the upper case, ideological veganism, the kind that goes beyond diet and lifestyle wisdom to a sort of counterfactual crusade. For this crowd, it has become an article of faith that not only is meat-eating bad for humans, but that it’s always been bad for humans—that we were never meant to eat animal products at all, and that our teeth, facial structure and digestive systems are proof of that.

You see it in Nine Reasons Your Canine Teeth Don’t Make You a Meat-Eater; in PETA’s Yes, It’s True: Humans Aren’t Meant to Eat Meat; in Shattering the Myth: Humans Are Natural Vegetarians. (Google “humans aren’t supposed to eat meat” and have at it.)

But sorry, it just ain’t so. As a new study makes clear, not only did processing and eating meat come naturally to humans, it’s entirely possible that without an early diet that included generous amounts of animal protein, we wouldn’t even have become human—at least not the modern, verbal, intelligent humans we are.

It was about 2.6 million years ago that meat first became a significant part of the pre-human diet, and if Australopithecus had had a forehead to slap it would surely have done so. Being an herbivore was easy—fruits and vegetables don’t run away, after all. But they’re also not terribly calorie-dense. A better alternative were so-called underground storage organs (USOs)—root foods like beets and yams and potatoes. They pack a bigger nutritional wallop, but they’re not terribly tasty—at least not raw—and they’re very hard to chew. According to Harvard University evolutionary biologists proto-humans eating enough root food to stay alive would have had to go through up to 15 million “chewing cycles” a year.

This is where meat stepped—and ran and scurried—in to save the day. Prey that has been killed and then prepared either by slicing, pounding or flaking provides a much more calorie-rich meal with much less chewing than root foods do, boosting nutrient levels overall. (Cooking, which would have made things easier still, did not come into vogue until 500,000 years ago.)

In order to determine how much effort primitive humans saved by eating a diet that included processed animal protein, Harvard reserchersrecruited 24 decidedly modern humans and fed them samples of three kinds of OSU’s (jewel yams, carrots and beets) and one kind of meat (goat, raw, but screened to ensure the absence of any pathogens). Using electromyography sensors, they then measured how much energy the muscles of the head and jaw had to exert to chew and swallow the samples either whole or prepared one of the three ancient ways.

On average, they found that it required from 39% to 46% less force to chew and swallow processed meat than processed root foods. Slicing worked best for meat, not only making it especially easy to chew, but also reducing the size of the individual particles in any swallow, making them more digestible. For OSUs, pounding was best—a delightful fact that one day would lead to the mashed potato. Overall,researchers concluded, a diet that was one-third animal protein and two-thirds OSUs would have saved early humans about two million chews per year—a 13% reduction—meaning a commensurate savings in time and calorie-burning effort just to get dinner down.

That mattered for reasons that went beyond just giving our ancient ancestors a few extra free hours in their days. A brain is a very nutritionally demanding organ, and if you want to grow a big one, eating at least some meat will provide you far more calories with far less effort than a meatless menu will. What’s more, while animal muscle eaten straight from the carcass requires a lot of ripping and tearing—which demands big, sharp teeth and a powerful bite—once we learned to process our meat, we could do away with some of that, developing smaller teeth and a less pronounced and muscular jaw. This, in turn, may have led to other changes in the skull and neck, favoring a larger brain, better thermoregulation and more advanced speech organs.

“Whatever selection pressures favored these shifts,” the researchers wrote, “they would not have been possible without increased meat consumption combined with food processing technology.”

Humans are omnivorous in nature. According to John McArdle, Ph.D, "The key category in the discussion of human diet is omnivores, which are defined as generalized feeders, with neither carnivore nor herbivore specializations for acquiring or processing food, and who are capable of consuming and do consume both animal protein and vegetation. They are basically *opportunistic* feeders (survive by eating what is available) with more generalized anatomical and physiological traits, especially the dentition (teeth)." Humans have both molars and canines, which means that we as a species, we have evolved to tear meat (with molars) and chew plants (with molars).

Not only this, but look at what vitamins we need for survival. According to Zoologist Matan Shelomi, "Chemically, we lack cellulases or cellulosic symbionts that many herbivores have and in fact don't even have the biological equipment to produce them. We also have lots of proteases and and extremely acid stomach ph that carnivores do. But we do have sucrases that let us digest fruits. Humans require vitamin B12 to thrive, which can only come from animal sources or certain bacteria (vegans must supplement their diet). We also require vitamin C, which is present in citrus fruits and organ meat, the latter probably being our evolutionary ancestor's main source. Interestingly, we have very powerful livers (the detoxification organ) and a very strong ability to smell rot/decay/decomposition relative to other animals. This suggests we may have evolved as scavengers, eating dead (but not too decayed) carcasses killed by other animals."

So back to me: My final point is the most simplest one: Chimpanzees, Sharing more than 98% of the same DNA are our closest biological relatives, are omnivores by nature.

So, yeah. Humans are omnivores and we always have been....and no amount of wishing that away is going to change it. .....we are also the most adaptable animal on this planet and can "make it" eating just about anything so if you want to eat a vegan diet....that's just fine....just remember to take your supplements.
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  #30  
Old 17-10-2018, 03:22 PM
Pagandell Pagandell is offline
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Bunny

The change into more empaphy and spiritual awareness is taking place, how ever much you fight against it
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How many times does an angel fall.

How many people lie instead of talking tall.

quote David Bowie Black Star.
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