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  #61  
Old 11-07-2019, 05:49 PM
Legrand Legrand is offline
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Hello,

I know that the Unborn, Ain Soph, Brahman or that which as no Name “exist”.
I know that the One Existent knows that It exist and that it can do that by projecting Maya.
I know that the primate mind of this body is not evolved enough to know yet if the One Existent and thus Maya are Unborn or are just a temporary flash in the “existence” of the Unborn.
I know that books won’t give me that answer. Only the expansion of this primate mind to that of the One Existent will do by direct experience.

Enjoy!
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  #62  
Old 12-07-2019, 12:20 AM
ad infinitum ad infinitum is offline
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I always see fear as the opposite of Divine Love and hate as a branch of fear. Then there is no opposite for Divine Love.



What a great insight! Thank you for saying this. It gives me so much to think about on a different level.

Edited to say - oops, I did the quote wrong. I was trying to quote Imthatim!
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  #63  
Old 12-07-2019, 12:53 AM
Legrand Legrand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ad infinitum
I always see fear as the opposite of Divine Love and hate as a branch of fear. Then there is no opposite for Divine Love.



What a great insight! Thank you for saying this. It gives me so much to think about on a different level.

Edited to say - oops, I did the quote wrong. I was trying to quote Imthatim!

Welcome to this forum ad ifinitum.

Enjoy!
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  #64  
Old 12-07-2019, 02:33 AM
ImthatIm ImthatIm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ad infinitum
I always see fear as the opposite of Divine Love and hate as a branch of fear. Then there is no opposite for Divine Love.



What a great insight! Thank you for saying this. It gives me so much to think about on a different level.

Edited to say - oops, I did the quote wrong. I was trying to quote Imthatim!

Welcome ad infinitum.

I am sure I did not come up with it,but happy to pass it along.
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  #65  
Old 20-10-2019, 06:49 PM
guthrio guthrio is offline
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The Divine Paradox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Namaste. Peace and blessings to all.

Over the past fortnight or so, I have been involved in about a dozen or so threads on here, all with a similar theme; "If I am God, or supposed to be the "I AM", why do I still suffer so? Why do I still feel so much compassion and empathy for others who ARE suffering, even though I cannot really help them and how unfair is that? Why hasn't my Kundalini risen yet after doing 2 hours of meditation every day for the past 10 years? Why is it that I still feel some sort of existential emptiness and loneliness even after realizing that there is no separation and we are all connected? Why won't anybody else listen to me when I describe methods to remove my conscious awareness from the integration of my spiritual energies? Does this all mean the sky is gonna fall?

Since forever, I have delighted in the play of Duality...in the separation of being, because it never left me with any unanswered questions and "who am I?" just became "I couldn't care less" however, I am still to work out if this is a real "ego death" or I just couldn't be bothered asking questions which have no answers...you could say, that I am really not the "koan type" even though meditation and mindfulness are both important to me and I practice them regularly. I had absolutely no interest in raising Kundalini or getting any siddhis...and that is possibly why all that eventuated.

The purpose of this thread (I don't usually start them either unless I have something very important to share) is to post a video. It is the only video I have ever seen which corresponds to my beliefs, experiences and viewpoints 100% regarding life, the universe and everything. Not many have been able to crack my shell, or at least being able to understand it whenever they tried.

So here, I share that video. It will only take 19 minutes of your time and I appreciate any feedback, critiques, criticism or what have you because in order for me to adapt and appreciate your views, in light of incorporation into a meaningful exchange of concepts, you need to understand what it is that I base my entire philosophy on first.

You Are Not God - The Divine Paradox
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AAHNxHgc8EI

Thank you for reading, watching, appreciating, helping and for any replies in advance.

Shivani Devi,

I saw the video.

Namaste.

As you know, this expression"...is used both for greeting and leave-taking. Namaste is usually spoken with a slight bow and hands pressed together, palms touching and fingers pointing upwards, thumbs close to the chest. This gesture is called Añjali Mudrā or Pranamasana. In Hinduism, it means "I bow to the divine in you".

You asked for feedback.

Considering the Infinite perspective from which the gesture of Namaste is offered to "others"....

....As I AM, You ARE the feedback, in response.

My kitty, Clawdia, just came into the room as I was typing this to you. The sound she made upon greeting me was an unintelligible squeak, that meant "Namaste". My greeting to her was, "Hi kitty"! which coincidentally means the same thing....whether translatable to her or vice versa! .

As I AM, the Infinite, in all Its forms, greets Itself, in all Its forms.

The "Divine Paradox" is that I AM is, Itself, the "greeter" and the "greeted", concurrently!

Hope this helps....

Namaste.
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“Why, that’s true! I am a perfect, unlimited gull!” Jonathan opened his eyes asking, "Where are we?” The Elder Chiang said, “We’re on some planet with a green sky and a double star for a sun.” Jonathan made a scree of delight. “IT WORKS!" “Well, of course it works, Jon,” said Chiang. “It always works, when you know what you’re doing." (and even when you don't)
http://csermelyblog.tehetsegpont.hu/...ir%C3%A1ly.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8COt1n3jDqA&t=19s

Last edited by guthrio : 20-10-2019 at 08:51 PM. Reason: clarify inputs
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  #66  
Old 21-10-2019, 01:08 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guthrio
Shivani Devi,

I saw the video.

Namaste.

As you know, this expression"...is used both for greeting and leave-taking. Namaste is usually spoken with a slight bow and hands pressed together, palms touching and fingers pointing upwards, thumbs close to the chest. This gesture is called Añjali Mudrā or Pranamasana. In Hinduism, it means "I bow to the divine in you".

You asked for feedback.

Considering the Infinite perspective from which the gesture of Namaste is offered to "others"....

....As I AM, You ARE the feedback, in response.

My kitty, Clawdia, just came into the room as I was typing this to you. The sound she made upon greeting me was an unintelligible squeak, that meant "Namaste". My greeting to her was, "Hi kitty"! which coincidentally means the same thing....whether translatable to her or vice versa!

As I AM, the Infinite, in all Its forms, greets Itself, in all Its forms.

The "Divine Paradox" is that I AM is, Itself, the "greeter" and the "greeted", concurrently!

Hope this helps....

Namaste.
"Clawdia" - what a cool name for a cat!.

I tend to be slightly more pragmatic in my interpretation of animal sounds.

Recently, I was given a rescue dog by my mother...a Maltese Terrier called "Francesca" and because the name is a bit of a mouthful when she is being called, her name is "Frankie" but she answers to "Dog" just the same...so all my dogs end up just being called "Dog"...it is a good thing I never have any more than one of them at any given time or else that would be quite confusing...

When my dog wags its tail or lets out a small bark, it can mean anything from "oh, I see you are FINALLY awake" to "I need to be let outside to do my business" to "my bowl is empty....food would be nice" to "my neck needs a good scratch"....sometimes I end up doing all the above just to make sure I have not missed anything...I doubt my dog is saying "I salute the Divine in you" but that's just me...nor do I see the Divine in my dog... although I understand that everything, in essence, is Divine...no matter what it is.

Over the years, people tend to do things by rote. I am pretty sure that most people who do "Namaste" are not honoring the Divinity in another...they are using the mudra as a gesture of greeting/leaving or politeness...like a germophobe who is afraid to shake hands...and we also know that "shaking hands" is a gesture of trust to show the other person that you are not bearing or concealing any weapons or hidden malice towards them...but the interpretation becomes lost down through the generations where humanity plays the "Chinese Whispers" game.

When I look up at the stars, see the infinite beauty in the myriad of lifeforms, structure, mathematical precision, I also know there is a power/force which is "greater than me" out there, something which fills me with a sense of awe and wonderment, so how can I BE that? I understand that I am made from the same stuff...but the only claim I could ever make is that I am only a PART of that, and not the greater existence in the totality...or else it would be very silly saying "Namaste" to oneself! The need to do so would never arise.

"The Divine in me salutes the Divine in you", so who is the "me" and who is the "you" that the Divine is recognising as itself? This makes absolutely no sense to me as anything I could possibly exist AS and I also can't remember being responsible for the Big Bang...or the creation of the Human Species...if "I AM", I feel almost certain that "I" wouldn't be so bloody ignorant of the fact... ignorant enough to surrender my heart and soul to the notion of a Transcendent "Divinity" so that I can actually manage to bypass my ego occasionally....only to realise that EVERYTHING is...and saying "I AM" appears to be just a tad egocentrically secular according to the notion of intrinsic personification as diametrically opposed to extrinsic personification.

Thank you for your post.
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  #67  
Old 21-10-2019, 01:37 AM
Legrand Legrand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
"Clawdia" - what a cool name for a cat!.

I tend to be slightly more pragmatic in my interpretation of animal sounds.

Recently, I was given a rescue dog by my mother...a Maltese Terrier called "Francesca" and because the name is a bit of a mouthful when she is being called, her name is "Frankie" but she answers to "Dog" just the same...so all my dogs end up just being called "Dog"...it is a good thing I never have any more than one of them at any given time or else that would be quite confusing...

When my dog wags its tail or lets out a small bark, it can mean anything from "oh, I see you are FINALLY awake" to "I need to be let outside to do my business" to "my bowl is empty....food would be nice" to "my neck needs a good scratch"....sometimes I end up doing all the above just to make sure I have not missed anything...I doubt my dog is saying "I salute the Divine in you" but that's just me...nor do I see the Divine in my dog... although I understand that everything, in essence, is Divine...no matter what it is.

Over the years, people tend to do things by rote. I am pretty sure that most people who do "Namaste" are not honoring the Divinity in another...they are using the mudra as a gesture of greeting/leaving or politeness...like a germophobe who is afraid to shake hands...and we also know that "shaking hands" is a gesture of trust to show the other person that you are not bearing or concealing any weapons or hidden malice towards them...but the interpretation becomes lost down through the generations where humanity plays the "Chinese Whispers" game.

When I look up at the stars, see the infinite beauty in the myriad of lifeforms, structure, mathematical precision, I also know there is a power/force which is "greater than me" out there, something which fills me with a sense of awe and wonderment, so how can I BE that? I understand that I am made from the same stuff...but the only claim I could ever make is that I am only a PART of that, and not the greater existence in the totality...or else it would be very silly saying "Namaste" to oneself! The need to do so would never arise.

"The Divine in me salutes the Divine in you", so who is the "me" and who is the "you" that the Divine is recognising as itself? This makes absolutely no sense to me as anything I could possibly exist AS and I also can't remember being responsible for the Big Bang...or the creation of the Human Species...if "I AM", I feel almost certain that "I" wouldn't be so bloody ignorant of the fact... ignorant enough to surrender my heart and soul to the notion of a Transcendent "Divinity" so that I can actually manage to bypass my ego occasionally....only to realise that EVERYTHING is...and saying "I AM" appears to be just a tad egocentrically secular according to the notion of intrinsic personification as diametrically opposed to extrinsic personification.

Thank you for your post.

Hello Shivani,

It's always a pleasure to read you.

Simply,
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  #68  
Old 21-10-2019, 03:03 AM
JustASimpleGuy JustASimpleGuy is offline
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I don't know if this helps, but here goes...

The part of me that is who I am is finally content with its severely limited capacity to intellectually understand non-duality in its fullest sense. It can listen to YT lectures by Advaita Vedanta swamis but let's face it, it's all analogy, metaphor and simile. Those it can grasp, but nothing much deeper.

The part of me that is what I am sits back and watches the movie.

Is the movie real to the who part? It certainly feels that way and for obvious and practical reasons the who part best treat it that way.

For me here's where the rubber meets the road. Realization and recognition through both gaining what understanding I might and experiencing some space of separation between the seeming duality of who and what has allowed the who part to experience the what part wherever it looks.

When I say experience, the way it feels to me is there's a small 'c' consciousness that's entangled with the who part and it has a definite knowing and experience the what part is everywhere. That feeling is strongest with other people and say, my dog for instance. It's also there with birds, trees and even insects but not quite the same or maybe as strong. I don't get that sense with inanimate objects, at least not yet.

The who part has the distinct impression trying to wrap its puny brain around it all will defeat the purpose and deposit itself back to where it once was. It would rather not do that.
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  #69  
Old 22-10-2019, 04:34 PM
guthrio guthrio is offline
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The Divine Paradox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
"Clawdia" - what a cool name for a cat!.

I tend to be slightly more pragmatic in my interpretation of animal sounds.

Recently, I was given a rescue dog by my mother...a Maltese Terrier called "Francesca" and because the name is a bit of a mouthful when she is being called, her name is "Frankie" but she answers to "Dog" just the same...so all my dogs end up just being called "Dog"...it is a good thing I never have any more than one of them at any given time or else that would be quite confusing...

When my dog wags its tail or lets out a small bark, it can mean anything from "oh, I see you are FINALLY awake" to "I need to be let outside to do my business" to "my bowl is empty....food would be nice" to "my neck needs a good scratch"....sometimes I end up doing all the above just to make sure I have not missed anything...I doubt my dog is saying "I salute the Divine in you" but that's just me...nor do I see the Divine in my dog... although I understand that everything, in essence, is Divine...no matter what it is.

Over the years, people tend to do things by rote. I am pretty sure that most people who do "Namaste" are not honoring the Divinity in another...they are using the mudra as a gesture of greeting/leaving or politeness...like a germophobe who is afraid to shake hands...and we also know that "shaking hands" is a gesture of trust to show the other person that you are not bearing or concealing any weapons or hidden malice towards them...but the interpretation becomes lost down through the generations where humanity plays the "Chinese Whispers" game.

When I look up at the stars, see the infinite beauty in the myriad of lifeforms, structure, mathematical precision, I also know there is a power/force which is "greater than me" out there, something which fills me with a sense of awe and wonderment, so how can I BE that? I understand that I am made from the same stuff...but the only claim I could ever make is that I am only a PART of that, and not the greater existence in the totality...or else it would be very silly saying "Namaste" to oneself! The need to do so would never arise.

"The Divine in me salutes the Divine in you", so who is the "me" and who is the "you" that the Divine is recognising as itself? This makes absolutely no sense to me as anything I could possibly exist AS and I also can't remember being responsible for the Big Bang...or the creation of the Human Species...if "I AM", I feel almost certain that "I" wouldn't be so bloody ignorant of the fact... ignorant enough to surrender my heart and soul to the notion of a Transcendent "Divinity" so that I can actually manage to bypass my ego occasionally....only to realise that EVERYTHING is...and saying "I AM" appears to be just a tad egocentrically secular according to the notion of intrinsic personification as diametrically opposed to extrinsic personification.

Thank you for your post.

Thank you for your post, as well.

Consider that the pragmatic reliance on names, words, and concepts to connote the Unnamable, "appears to be just a tad egocentrically secular according to the notion of intrinsic personification as diametrically opposed to extrinsic personification."

Do you actually believe that "When I look up at the stars, see the infinite beauty in the myriad of lifeforms, structure, mathematical precision, I also know there is a power/force which is "greater than me" out there, something which fills me with a sense of awe and wonderment, so how can I BE that? I understand that I am made from the same stuff...but the only claim I could ever make is that I am only a PART of that, and not the greater existence in the totality...or else it would be very silly saying "Namaste" to oneself! The need to do so would never arise."

...can be described by connoting the words "Namaste" or "the play of duality" as representative of such an experience?

...or use of the words, "greater, me, part, totality, structure, precision, power, ego, force, Divinity, "not remembering", or "pragmatic" can EVER encapsulate what is really happening?

Is the description that connotes your "sense of awe and wonderment", awe and wonderment?

Since all words are meaningless without the meaning we give them.....why fall into the trap of relying upon words to "grasp" the Ineffable Essence, that obviously includes YOU?

"The need to do so would never arise.".
N'est-ce pas?

Case in point, observe how many interpretations have been employed by similarly word-oriented folks, obsessed with the need to grasp the idea of momentum? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum

....even without the "pragmatic" understanding that "All "things" are the same one thing vibrating at different rates:? https://iasos.com/metaphys/bashar/#one

What name could possibly contain the essence of the Infinite thereof or the operation of the Infinite therein?

So why would you reduce your appreciation of the Ineffable Essence, which includes you, and the beauty of everything you described above, to the "bloody" ignominy of mere words describing "the notion of a Transcendent "Divinity" so that I can actually manage to bypass my ego"?

The egoic "notion" of I AM can never be the eternal Noumenon I AM.

It just Kant....

Hope this helps you "gain momentum" in your search for answers....

Clawdia and I say..... to you and Frankie.
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“Why, that’s true! I am a perfect, unlimited gull!” Jonathan opened his eyes asking, "Where are we?” The Elder Chiang said, “We’re on some planet with a green sky and a double star for a sun.” Jonathan made a scree of delight. “IT WORKS!" “Well, of course it works, Jon,” said Chiang. “It always works, when you know what you’re doing." (and even when you don't)
http://csermelyblog.tehetsegpont.hu/...ir%C3%A1ly.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8COt1n3jDqA&t=19s

Last edited by guthrio : 22-10-2019 at 10:42 PM. Reason: clarify inputs
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  #70  
Old 23-10-2019, 02:12 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guthrio
Thank you for your post, as well.

Consider that the pragmatic reliance on names, words, and concepts to connote the Unnamable, "appears to be just a tad egocentrically secular according to the notion of intrinsic personification as diametrically opposed to extrinsic personification."

Do you actually believe that "When I look up at the stars, see the infinite beauty in the myriad of lifeforms, structure, mathematical precision, I also know there is a power/force which is "greater than me" out there, something which fills me with a sense of awe and wonderment, so how can I BE that? I understand that I am made from the same stuff...but the only claim I could ever make is that I am only a PART of that, and not the greater existence in the totality...or else it would be very silly saying "Namaste" to oneself! The need to do so would never arise."

...can be described by connoting the words "Namaste" or "the play of duality" as representative of such an experience?

...or use of the words, "greater, me, part, totality, structure, precision, power, ego, force, Divinity, "not remembering", or "pragmatic" can EVER encapsulate what is really happening?

Is the description that connotes your "sense of awe and wonderment", awe and wonderment?

Since all words are meaningless without the meaning we give them.....why fall into the trap of relying upon words to "grasp" the Ineffable Essence, that obviously includes YOU?

"The need to do so would never arise.".
N'est-ce pas?

Case in point, observe how many interpretations have been employed by similarly word-oriented folks, obsessed with the need to grasp the idea of momentum? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum

....even without the "pragmatic" understanding that "All "things" are the same one thing vibrating at different rates:? https://iasos.com/metaphys/bashar/#one

What name could possibly contain the essence of the Infinite thereof or the operation of the Infinite therein?

So why would you reduce your appreciation of the Ineffable Essence, which includes you, and the beauty of everything you described above, to the "bloody" ignominy of mere words describing "the notion of a Transcendent "Divinity" so that I can actually manage to bypass my ego"?

The egoic "notion" of I AM can never be the eternal Noumenon I AM.

It just Kant....

Hope this helps you "gain momentum" in your search for answers....

Clawdia and I say..... to you and Frankie.
Unless one has attained the experience of total immersion within the ocean of Consciousness and pure awareness without any association or notion/label of a "Self" (no matter the case), even NON Duality no longer exists!

Anything which can be described, subscribed to, taken to have any meaning or value can only occur after the fact, or as a poor and totally insufficient allusion TO the fact!

This is very difficult for me to articulate, because I know what I want to say, but I don't know how to say it...but unless I make some attempt to communicate an associated concept (which also exists beyond conceptualization), how is anybody else going to understand it? and that is IF they were meant to do so I the first place and how am I to know that?

The bottom line is that I love God and I ALSO love myself, but if I were God, there would be no "ALSO".

I understand that God is something greater than what I am, and what I am is only a small PART of God...in my heart, like a Divine Spark...and this isn't something which my brain understands, it is something that only my heart does, so any logic to the contrary just "does not compute" because my heart is stuck in Duality...in the whole relationship between "Shivani" and "Shiva" and my brain has absolutely NO say in it at all....so people can expound Non Duality to me until all the sacred cows come home and my heart will say "don't listen to that rubbish...".

It is akin to someone falling in love and the very FIRST thing that happens is that all their family and friends will point out all of the superficial flaws in their beloved...tell them what a huge mistake they are making and wrap them up in cotton wool to stop them from getting hurt in future which may/not ever eventuate and so, people learn by and through social conditioning to live in constant fear and mistrust, never letting love IN.

While others would be willing to risk everything and everyone they know for the sake OF love when they are given the ultimatum "it is either me OR them, you cannot have both and be happy" and so, Duality disguises itself as non Duality to appease the Ego...the Ego of others, or of Self.

There are some who have been conditioned through many births to turn against the party who gives them that ultimatum as they refuse to let themselves be wilfully controlled and blackmailed...and thereby hangs the tale.

Besides that...if "I AM" (in ANY context), then what is the "I" that "IS" and what remains aware of it, in any Dualistic sense to be conscious OF the fact?

This is what I, as a human ego, fails to understand.

Thanks again for your reply.

I will reply to others later today.
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