What is Jesus in spirituality?

[FairyCrystal]

I was quite shocked to find out that an Avatar like Jesus is mentioned in most religions. Most have been allegedly born on the 25th of December as well.
Horus, Buddha, Jesus, there were more, but cannot remember from the top of my head. Now it wasn't clear to me if these were supposed to be different Avatars over time or not.
They do know Jesus wasn't really born on the 25th Dec. He was born -if a few months later. Not certain if it was January or April now. But it wasn't Dec 25th.

To me Jesus is an Ascended Master. I do believe he existed. I did grow up with the idea that he was a religious icon, but I don't do religion anymore.
Fact that there's few written records doesn't mean much. Many people didn't write things down, many didn't even write at all.
Plus, lots of scrolls were burnt by church and/or the ones in power, think of the Library of Alexandria. Allegedly 40.000 scrolls were lost.
Other scrolls have disappeared into the Vatican's vaults.
So the fact that what is available to us doesn't give clear answers doesn't mean a thing. I personally am convinced that all answers to any such questions is stored in the Vatican's vaults and if they'd release that info all religions will fall flat on their face. A good reason to keep it locked away. If I remember correctly, no one as has access to all parts of these vaults. I'm sure there will be a few, but that's the ones in power.

Anywho, I do believe Jesus existed, and I do work with his energy at times. But as an Ascended Master, not as a religious icon.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by HSmith123

This is controversial but I don't believe Jesus ever existed. There was no written records by the roman writers and the Jerusalem writer Philo at the time Jesus was supposedly there. The first writings of Jesus began around 400ad. Now I find it pretty amazing that someone so revolutionary isn't written about until 400 years later... There are also plenty of myths and legends with a similar story to Jesus, for example Attis, the Pagen god, born 25th dec to a virgin mother, died and was resurrected 3 days later etc, this was about 1250BC this story is. This is symbolic of the sun gods the ancients used to worship, 3 days after the winter solstice, when the sun is at its weakest (or died) is 25th December (sun ressurected)

Now what I find strange is Jesus has a place in spirituality for a lot of people, is he a demon/ archon deceiving? Or is he the manifestation of peoples beliefs?

Let me know what you think guys :) Like i said though there wasnt a dude called Jesus in this supposed time that he was so what are your thoughts? :)

What is claimed about Jesus, who he was, etc. is a matter of faith. There may well have been a man who preached his gospel. Historians often assume that Jesus existed, but what he did and who he was is up to your beliefs..

The ''virgin mother'' story is a mistranslation though. The gospels were written in Greek, and originally it was said Maria was not a virgin but a 'young woman'..

The similarities with other deities and dates is syncretism in practice. Different beliefs come together and to reconcile things or convince people you do a bit of both, you mix colours in the hope that everyone likes it. Isn't that what many of us do today.. mixing eastern concepts with western beliefs...??

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Altair

What is claimed about Jesus, who he was, etc. is a matter of faith. There may well have been a man who preached his gospel. Historians often assume that Jesus existed, but what he did and who he was is up to your beliefs..

The ''virgin mother'' story is a mistranslation though. The gospels were written in Greek, and originally it was said Maria was not a virgin but a 'young woman'..

The similarities with other deities and dates is syncretism in practice. Different beliefs come together and to reconcile things or convince people you do a bit of both, you mix colours in the hope that everyone likes it. Isn't that what many of us do today.. mixing eastern concepts with western beliefs...??

Also in the time the Bible was written "virgin" had a different meaning. Virgin ment one who had no master,or husband. But if the "church" advertised that it would go against a huge religious no,no. So when the Bible was "edited" by the church they fabricated it to make it work in the church's favor. Just like most other forms of politics.

[Altair]

Jesus meditated and fasted in the desert for a time, and battled the ''devil'', and then went on to society to heal people and preach. It sounds very familiar to ascetic yogi's who achieve (a degree of) spiritual enlightenment and then proceed to preach the good news to the people, that of their own divine soul ((this is usually the message..)). Asceticism generates spiritual power, and if Jesus really did heal people, then it's possible he achieved quite a serious level at that as well..

But how we place him within the cultural context is just that, it's culture. In the context he lives he was put forth as a 'Messiah', someone whom, to some people at least, was written about in the scriptures. But this is what we do.. we make sense of said persons within a cultural and religious context. If you put that context aside for a moment, you can see an ascetic who reached spiritual insights/enlightenment. The conclusions about whom he was and what sort of religious message he ''fulfilled'' is just interpretation and beliefs, and often steered into certain directions to make it self fulfilling prophecies. If we just look at his actions instead it's far more simple..

If he did not exist, then it's an interesting story and a bit far fetched.. and it would be easier to write such a story in Ancient India than in the Ancient Mediterranean..

[JosephineB]

Originally Posted by hallow

Also in the time the Bible was written "virgin" had a different meaning. Virgin ment one who had no master,or husband. But if the "church" advertised that it would go against a huge religious no,no. So when the Bible was "edited" by the church they fabricated it to make it work in the church's favor. Just like most other forms of politics.

That makes sense. I found the Adam & Eve thread very interesting too. Not sure if you posted on or read that.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Altair

Jesus meditated and fasted in the desert for a time, and battled the ''devil'', and then went on to society to heal people and preach. It sounds very familiar to ascetic yogi's who achieve (a degree of) spiritual enlightenment and then proceed to preach the good news to the people, that of their own divine soul ((this is usually the message..)). Asceticism generates spiritual power, and if Jesus really did heal people, then it's possible he achieved quite a serious level at that as well..

But how we place him within the cultural context is just that, it's culture. In the context he lives he was put forth as a 'Messiah', someone whom, to some people at least, was written about in the scriptures. But this is what we do.. we make sense of said persons within a cultural and religious context. If you put that context aside for a moment, you can see an ascetic who reached spiritual insights/enlightenment. The conclusions about whom he was and what sort of religious message he ''fulfilled'' is just interpretation and beliefs, and often steered into certain directions to make it self fulfilling prophecies. If we just look at his actions instead it's far more simple..

If he did not exist, then it's an interesting story and a bit far fetched.. and it would be easier to write such a story in Ancient India than in the Ancient Mediterranean..

hhhmmmm it makes sense. Wish I knew more about some of the points you made.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by JosephineBloggs

That makes sense. I found the Adam & Eve thread very interesting too. Not sure if you posted on or read that.

I feel there's a lot of good and interesting stories in the Bible. Some I am sure are true but some just to make things look good. I am sure there's a god that wants nothing but the best for us, like any good parent for there children. But of course buy nature us humans have to try to turn things in our favor.

Originally Posted by FairyCrystal

I was quite shocked to find out that an Avatar like Jesus is mentioned in most religions. Most have been allegedly born on the 25th of December as well.
Horus, Buddha, Jesus, there were more, but cannot remember from the top of my head. Now it wasn't clear to me if these were supposed to be different Avatars over time or not.
They do know Jesus wasn't really born on the 25th Dec. He was born -if a few months later. Not certain if it was January or April now. But it wasn't Dec 25th.

The 25 December is the start of Rome's pagan Saturnalia that lasts 7 days (ends on the night before the Calends of Januarius - New Year's day to us lot!) You bet that Constantine, who was having a lot of trouble erasing everything pagan, wouldn't dared to have offended the pagans totally - I mean he was killing enough people already who believed in Jesus the Gnostic, destroying the supporting scriptures of the apocryphal disciples and he needed to come up with more concrete factoids (excuse the oxymoron, p'se), so what better than to write Jesus' birth certificate for 25th December. "You'd better believe it," he declared, making throat slitting gestures with the edge of his hand. So people did - and still got their Saturnalia. Even the regalia used in the Roman Church is very close to big pagan ceremony. The Bishop's mitre isn't that shape for nothing.

To me Jesus is an Ascended Master. I do believe he existed.

The person existed all right. You bet than many of the naysayers here have done no research. However He was executed by the Governor of Judea. Unless the greatest swindle of all historic time has been committed, that was a matter of public record well into 1 AD. I haven't personally seen the document - not quite old enough LOL - but again, unless someone believes the whole of Rome and its civil service was fake, there's 99.99% chance it existed.

So the fact that what is available to us doesn't give clear answers doesn't mean a thing. I personally am convinced that all answers to any such questions is stored in the Vatican's vaults and if they'd release that info all religions will fall flat on their face. A good reason to keep it locked away. If I remember correctly, no one as has access to all parts of these vaults. I'm sure there will be a few, but that's the ones in power.

Fortunately for us, far less fortunate for Constantine's pogrom, some of the papers were hidden and came to light only last century in Nag Hammadi. The Gnostic Gospels. They're far from complete but are enough to raises suspicions against the motives of Constantine and the Church he founded.

Jesus, Joshua, Jeheshua was as human as the rest of us. Sagacious, very well educated. Punished for offences against Rabbinical orthodoxy and the establishment. He'd have lived on, had the hoi-poloi at the time not voted him down in the well-known practice of the public choosing to let a "criminal" off before mass crucifixions.

Originally Posted by Altair

[size="2"]What is claimed about Jesus, who he was, etc. is a matter of faith. There may well have been a man who preached his gospel. Historians often assume that Jesus existed, but what he did and who he was is up to your beliefs..

The ''virgin mother'' story is a mistranslation though. The gospels were written in Greek, and originally it was said Maria was not a virgin but a 'young woman'..

And Boy-o, did Constantine use this to "prove" her offspring was the son of God. An immaculate conception (but for God breaking one of the commandments he dictated to Moses!) Whichever way you look at it, there's something wrong.
Shame it isn't mentioned in the Gnostic Gospels, written in various ancient languages (other than Greek). Perhaps it is and the translators think it prudent to keep quiet. Or they haven't found the relevant script yet.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

And Boy-o, did Constantine use this to "prove" her offspring was the son of God. An immaculate conception (but for God breaking one of the commandments he dictated to Moses!) Whichever way you look at it, there's something wrong.
Shame it isn't mentioned in the Gnostic Gospels, written in various ancient languages (other than Greek). Perhaps it is and the translators think it prudent to keep quiet.

Constantine was not a nice man. We always hear about those ''we were fed to the lions!'' stories but the truth is, far more 'pagans' died at Christians hands. Christianity was tolerated most of the time, but Christians did not tolerate 'pagans' from the very beginning, and once they got the power it was hell for the non-Christians..