The Forest - the Chain Saw - and the Seedling

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by zorkchop

inavalan . . .

I have learned from long, consistent experience . . . that if there is little interest in the questions . . . there is often even less in the answers.

I was purposively vague to leave the door wide open. I even added in my reply that LIFE doesn’t clearly spell things out. For individuals to just throw their hands in the air and give up leads to endless lifetimes of waiting.

People who walk the far steps of the Path are not here to report. Their main goal is to nudge people along to make their own discoveries. It’s the ol’ “teach a man to fish” thing.

It truly takes an individual with an intense interest in Truth . . . beyond the current mainstream teachings . . . to begin to see what does indeed lie beyond the popular information. One thing is certain . . . no one can MAKE another person learn. So . . . LIFE plays a waiting game. The great, vast majority just wish to gather information . . . or find new ways to say what they already believe to be true.

There are reasons why Greater Truth is hidden from the masses. One of those reasons is that people just will not see what is right in front of them . . . which this thread could have addresses with development. If Greater Truth were easy to uncover . . . there would be no reason for this series of schoolrooms.

This thread will die due to lack of interest.

Thanks for replying.

I asked, because I didn't understand what you want to discuss about, and I felt that you might have something I'd might be interested in too.

For example, when I read

There are reasons why Greater Truth is hidden from the masses.

I inferred that you're saying that some "higher power" hides some truths that you're aware of.

I believe that not to be the case. Firstly, I don't believe there is such a "petty power".

Secondly, I believe that we don't get access to our inner source of knowledge due to our lack of tunning into it. Why don't we? All kind of ignorance, some innate, some inflicted on us by society.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Okay, I can't resist any longer.

https://youtu.be/UWHEcIbhDiw

[zorkchop]

inavalan . . .

We all live in a endless sea of Consciousness. The fact that it is often portrayed as an Ocean has much basis. This endless sea is distinctive by recognizable levels . . . due to vibration. I would bet that none of this is new to you.

What makes these layers or levels so mysterious is that you cannot make great inroads into the deeper areas without profound inner changes in perception of the individual. Just as a 3rd grader cannot “see” the perceptions or level of consciousness of a high school graduate . . . so goes the various levels of consciousness. Since like attracts like . . . we are drawn into the level of consciousness according to our beliefs and habits . . . which we hold dear from lifetime to lifetime . . . and it takes forever to make real changes to “advance” to the next level . . . so to speak.

So . . . higher consciousness is just beyond our perception because we cannot see beyond our current state of consciousness without putting in disciplined effort to even *begin* to see into that area in the first place . . . and . . . as we first catch glimpses . . . we let go of the old and slowly test out the new . . . and eventually we attain the “new” level . . . only to do it all over again . . . deeper still.

Some Truths are purposively hidden from the masses because they are simply not ready for it . . . they wouldn’t know what to do with it . . . and could do great harm to themselves or to those around them. Give a 3rd grader a loaded gun that s/he discovered by accident . . . and that 3rd grader could meet with disastrous results. Just consider . . . what if knowledge of real psychic energies and the greater knowledge of the God Worlds were given to one before they are ready?

All “power” lies within the individual and each learns to live within the level they reside at the time. Eventually they learn what power is . . . and what it is not.

Why can’t we “tune in?”

Most people . . . the vast majority . . . simply don’t want to. The effort involved is more than they wish to put forth. Many simply do not know where to look or how to go about it. When hints and opportunities present themselves . . . they go unrecognized. They are comfortable where they are . . . even with their shortcomings. The familiar outweighs the unknown.

That is why . . . to put in the effort to really . . . REALLY . . . see where one is on the path . . . where they are . . . what general beliefs do they hold that limit them to where they currently are . . . and begin to take steps to move beyond that . . . one step at a time . . . it’s an incredibly slow process until one takes it upon themselves to learn at an advanced level. Lots profess to do this . . . or claim to be doing this . . . but that is part of pulling up and away from the mental areas. The mental levels and those of habit are strong for a reason. One gains strength in dealing with them and pulling away . . . part of the reason for the struggle in the first place.

Society and cultures give us many of our perceptions but they usually are building off of what we bring with us into each incarnation. Overcoming these . . . additionally adds to our strength of conviction and discipline.

Many won’t do anything unless it’s “fun.” Don’t get me wrong . . . it’s part of the Path and one can spend endless lifetimes in the Disneyland levels of life. For as long as it lasts . . . it’s wonderful. More people won’t do anything unless it’s “given freely” to them without effort. I ask . . . just what is that going to teach the individual?

The Path . . . is ruthless. The purification of Self will absolutely blow you apart to the core. it is designed that way. One thing’s for sure . . . you cannot side-step or out-smart LIFE.

And yes . . . on we go.

[inavalan]

Interestingly, I still can't understand what you suggest doing, or you just present a hopeless state of being (?).

You seem to say somebody imposes this on us, purposefully. Is it so? To what end?

[zorkchop]

You raise an interesting point. It really doesn’t matter if *we* think or dispute whether it is all “hopeless” or not. The creation of Soul Itself gook place eons ago . . . and LIFE has nothing but time. Each individual can take millions of lifetimes to figure it all out . . . and they can certainly devote a couple of hundred lifetimes to the thought of it all being hopeless.

Soul is THE most powerful creation in all of existence. The only existence above it would be the Core Creator God ITSELF . . . by whatever name one calls it . . . according to where they are on the Path. All the Masters and savants and angels and demons and such . . . as Soul . . . all are created with equal potential. The difference lies in what each has learned and developed in their travels.

My initial post was again . . . purposively vague . . . to urge people to discuss what takes them beyond their current state of consciousness. There is a HUGE bottleneck at the top end of the mental worlds where all try to just stop the thought process and call it enlightenment. This is a paradox . . . for although it is far from enlightenment . . . it is a necessary step. The most powerful creation in all of existence was not “mad” to float about in thoughtlessness . . . yet . . . how long does it take for the individual to figure that out? With eternity to work with . . . numbers are irrelevant.

If there is an “imposition” . . . it was at the moment of the creation of Soul Itself. “Reasons” for that are eventually discovered . . . steps beyond the mental worlds are eventually uncovered through purification . . . and the puzzle pieces eventually come together into a recognizable and understandable picture.

People spend upwards of 90% of their lifetimes in the psychic realms. There are MORE than enough adventures in these areas to keep one occupied for seeming eons. This thread was an option for those that might be considering something beyond yoga . . . beyond thought-stopping meditation . . . beyond “I want this from God” . . . and other countless avenues and alleys to walk down within the psychic realms.

There are more traps than doors in the psychic worlds . . . and again . . . this is by design. Each WILL learn strength and courage eventually. And much more.

And no . . . it is NOT hopeless. There is a way through and out . . . so to speak. But understanding Self . . . taking one beyond the easily accessible studies and routes . . . this takes more lifetimes than one cares to acknowledge. So many times . . . people will not just stop and LOOK. When they try to stop and look inside . . . they can only look to the depth and level of their state of consciousness. To go beyond that takes real devotion and courage. There ARE ways. Or perhaps . . . there ARE directions. That’s why many true Masters are considered to be Wayshowers. They are not here to save. They are here to show the way. To even recognize one when one is standing right in front of you . . . takes a LONG time to earn that right.To ask the ageless questions of “Who am I’ and “What am I here for” while holding too the fads of the day will keep one in the endless loop of birth and death. There are some . . . few, but some . . . who would really like to come to terms with all of that and really begin to walk beyond the masses. There is little company there. That in itself is a huge test of strength and courage.

To begin that thinning process of self-purification . . . to really begin to look beyond those trees . . . takes a certain resolve. I guess I was offering a place for those who are approaching or walking these steps to interact.

[inavalan]

I guess I was offering a place for those who are approaching or walking these steps to interact.

What would those steps be, explicitly?

You made some statements that I don't think you have support for, e.g.

People spend upwards of 90% of their lifetimes in the psychic realms.

There are more traps than doors in the psychic worlds . . . and again . . . this is by design.

That’s why many true Masters are considered to be Wayshowers.

There is a HUGE bottleneck at the top end of the mental worlds where all try to just stop the thought process and call it enlightenment.

Anyway, I have different opinions about why I am (we are) here, what I'm (we're) here to do, reincarnation, and such. So, it's likely I'm not one of those you intended to reach.

My belief is that there is no source of knowledge and guidance we can trust other than our inner one(s). Talking to (reading) others about spiritual matters is worth doing only for the purpose of stimulating our intellect and intuition, not for the information per se.

Originally Posted by zorkchop

To begin that thinning process of self-purification . . . to really begin to look beyond those trees . . . takes a certain resolve. I guess I was offering a place for those who are approaching or walking these steps to interact.

My impression is that's the purpose of this entire forum with its many and diverse sub-forums. Without some general outline of the belief system you are rooting your forest and trees metaphor in it's hard for an individual to know whether your take on it is relevant to said individual's path and therefore whether participation is meaningful or beneficial.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

My impression is that's the purpose of this entire forum with its many and diverse sub-forums. Without some general outline of the belief system you are rooting your forest and trees metaphor in it's hard for an individual to know whether your take on it is relevant to said individual's path and therefore whether participation is meaningful or beneficial.

I simplify what you said to that of getting to know better the 'Universe'/God/etc.
The closer we get to resonate with each sub-forum, the closer we get to know the 'Universe'/God/etc.

[zorkchop]

inavala and others . . .

Let me see if I can clarify further.

Hopefully you all have heard the old saying . . . “We have met the enemy and the enemy is us.” Another version . . . “How to get out of our own way.”

People get bottlenecked into their belief systems which tend to mask or disguise what is beneficial or detrimental to us. The whole purpose of the thread was . . . how does one go about objectively looking deeply at oneself . . . to actually come face-to-face with the habits and patterns that limit . . . how does one go about perceiving those honestly for the benefit of the individual involved and . . . once perceived . . . what does one do about it / how does one go about gaining control of those habits . . . and lastly . . . what new habit or pattern is put into its place.

That . . . is all this while thread was about.

inavala . . . you are to be commended for even pursuing this. It appears not to be a popular subject. My posts in this thread clearly spelled out the dilemma of moving beyond the normal status quo. The fact that I have little support means little. One often gains ground by doing what everyone else doesn’t. I am *not* trying to reach anyone. The thread was a place for people to offer ways and means of exchanging the old for the new. The “steps” varies people take to really look deeply into themselves . . . beyond or more deeply than they tend to do . . . is exactly what the thread could have brought out. Inner direction and knowledge is core. How to apply is also extremely important. Complaints are many . . . ways to effectively maneuver beyond them are few indeed.

JustASimpleGuy . . . I was trying to stay OUT of a specific belief system and come up with viable techniques that would pertain to the individual no matter where they were “coming from.” Most of the time . . . no matter a persons belief system . . . when a person has a real dilemma in front of them . . . they need to face it . . . explore all the nuances and levels of that dilemma . . . somehow lay it to rest . . . and apply a more beneficial approach to or around the old pattern. When the individual discovers that s/he is in their own way . . . how does one go about coming to terms with that?

Again . . . this does not seem to be a popular query.

One fabulous thing about Truth . . . it prevails not matter what we thing of or about it. Discovering facets of LIFE to be true while others offer no support . . . and holding these Truths through lifetime after lifetime to continuously test and develop them even further . . . is the way of life beyond the mental worlds. Reincarnation is the means to an end . . . and not the end of and in itself.

Most of the replies to this thread continued to wrestle with the question(s) . . . and not the answer(s). This is exactly my point . . . why people cannot SEE what is right in front of them . . . how to get out of their own way . . . no matter the “belief system” . . . and actually DO something about their own limitations . . . in the privacy of their own home . . . at their own pace.

Not knowing too many workable or effective ways to do this is to a great extent the purpose of “stopping the mind.” People couldn’t figure out how to get out of their own way so they accepted the approach of just stopping the mind so they didn’t have to contend with it. This is fabulous mental R&R. There is NO criticism here. But when the individual “comes back” and has to contend with life on this level . . . all the old patterns are still there. Certainly one can push it farther and go find a cave and reside there for however long they wish . . . and most people take this route more than once . . . one way or another. Reincarnation finally leads to the assumption of . . . “Well . . . that doesn’t work . . . now what?”

This could have been a place to begin to contend with that.

The thread didn’t work due to lack of interest. Let it die.

Originally Posted by zorkchop

JustASimpleGuy . . . I was trying to stay OUT of a specific belief system and come up with viable techniques that would pertain to the individual no matter where they were “coming from.” Most of the time . . . no matter a persons belief system . . . when a person has a real dilemma in front of them . . . they need to face it . . . explore all the nuances and levels of that dilemma . . . somehow lay it to rest . . . and apply a more beneficial approach to or around the old pattern. When the individual discovers that s/he is in their own way . . . how does one go about coming to terms with that?

To me and for me it's very clear and very simple, at least it is now.

1 - Recognition and acceptance of one's true nature - awareness and not body-mind.

2 - Some method of reining in compulsive habits of mind. For me that's meditation.

Originally Posted by zorkchop

Not knowing too many workable or effective ways to do this is to a great extent the purpose of “stopping the mind.” People couldn’t figure out how to get out of their own way so they accepted the approach of just stopping the mind so they didn’t have to contend with it. This is fabulous mental R&R. There is NO criticism here. But when the individual “comes back” and has to contend with life on this level . . . all the old patterns are still there. Certainly one can push it farther and go find a cave and reside there for however long they wish . . . and most people take this route more than once . . . one way or another. Reincarnation finally leads to the assumption of . . . “Well . . . that doesn’t work . . . now what?”

If one devotes the time and in earnest to a daily practice of meditation eventually that state begins to transition to life outside of practice. That's the whole point of the practice just as practicing any other skill. It's not to only be proficient whilst practicing.