What is Consciousness?

Originally Posted by davidsun

Jesus's 'solution' was word-expressed this way: "(At that day ye shall know that" I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." (John 14)

He emphasized the 'Spirit'ual aspect of Being, not the 'Conscious' aspect as much, though - as in "The hour cometh, and now is, when the 'true' (reality conscious?) worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in 'truth': for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in 'truth'." (John 4)

I see a lot of similarities between Jesus' core message and that of Advaita Vedanta. So did Swami Vivekananda.

Vivekananda considered Jesus a non-dualist and his parables a way of giving the simple people of his time a tangible path through dualist concepts from "Our Father who art in Heaven" to "I am the vine and you are the branches" to "I and my Father are One".

"Whatsoever you do the the least among you, you do to me".

"nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst". Dare I say this is eerily similar to Neti Neti?

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I see a lot of similarities between Jesus' core message and that of Advaita Vedanta. So did Swami Vivekananda. ...

And so should be. The wider reality is the same. Perceptions differ, as they're filtered by individual's beliefs.

Originally Posted by inavalan

And so should be. The wider reality is the same. Perceptions differ, as they're filtered by individual's beliefs.

Yup, I came to this conclusion at a young age, somewhere in my teens. Physics points at this too with its Holy Grail being a Unified Field Theory, though I suspect there's something even more fundamental than that, a First Cause, if you will.

Call It God, Brahman, Consciousness, but they are only labels and the truth is It's unknowable to mere mortals.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Yup, I came to this conclusion at a young age, somewhere in my teens. Physics points at this too with its Holy Grail being a Unified Field Theory, though I suspect there's something even more fundamental than that, a First Cause, if you will.

Call It God, Brahman, Consciousness, but they are only labels and the truth is It's unknowable to mere mortals.

It seems to be unknowable even to more evolved beings that don't incarnate anymore. It's an onion.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I see a lot of similarities between Jesus' core message and that of Advaita Vedanta. So did Swami Vivekananda.

Vivekananda considered Jesus a non-dualist and his parables a way of giving the simple people of his time a tangible path through dualist concepts from "Our Father who art in Heaven" to "I am the vine and you are the branches" to "I and my Father are One".

"Whatsoever you do the the least among you, you do to me".

"Nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst". Dare I say this is eerily similar to Neti Neti?

Except with regard to :"Nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst". Dare I say this is eerily similar to Neti Neti?", I would say, what Jesus said is the opposite of the negate-ivity which is very apparent in 'Neti, Neti' (i.e. NOT this and NOT that). What he said was actually very affirmative more like Yeti, Yeti (i.e. YES this in and YES in that)!

Which, BTW, is also what the Gita (NOT Advaitists who regard worldly beings as being unreal)) says:

"I will speak to thee now of that great Truth which man ought to know, since by its means he will win immortal bliss – that which is without beginning, the Eternal Spirit which dwells in Me, neither with form, nor yet without it.

Everywhere are Its (real!) hands and Its (real!) feet; everywhere It has (rea;!) eyes that (really!) see, (real!) heads that (really!) think and (real!) mouths that (really!) speak; everywhere It (really!) listens; It (really!) dwells in all the worlds; It (really!) envelops them all.

Beyond the senses, It yet (really!) shines through every sense perception. Bound to nothing, It yet sustains everything. Unaffected by the Qualities, It still enjoys them all.

It is within all (real!) beings, yet outside; motionless yet moving; too subtle to be perceived; far away yet always near.

In all beings undivided, yet living in division, It is the upholder of all, Creator and Destroyer alike;

It is the Light of lights, beyond the reach of darkness; the Wisdom, the only thing that is worth knowing or that wisdom can teach; the (real!) Presence in the hearts of all."

Traditional (orthodox?) Advaitists are therefore deliberately ignore-ant (Orwellian?) sleight-of-words (i.e. 'black-is-white', 'No-is-Yes') deniers and obscurers of The (real!) Truth that both Jesus and The Gita propounded, IMO.

As the Gita also says (in Ch.2): "As a man can drink water from any side of a full tank, so the skilled theologian can wrest from any scripture that which will serve his purpose." Beware (meaning really be aware) , dudes and dudesses!

Originally Posted by davidsun

Except with regard to :"Nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst". Dare I say this is eerily similar to Neti Neti?", I would say, what Jesus said is the opposite of the negate-ivity which is very apparent in 'Neti, Neti' (i.e. NOT this and NOT that). What he said was actually very affirmative more like Yeti, Yeti (i.e. YES this in and YES in that)!

Which, BTW, is also what the Gita (NOT Advaitists who regard worldy beings as being unreal)) says:

"I*will speak to thee now of that great Truth which man ought to know, since by its means he will win immortal bliss – that which is without beginning, the Eternal Spirit which dwells in Me, neither with form, nor yet without it.

Everywhere are Its (real!) hands and Its (real!) feet; everywhere It has (rea;!) eyes that (really!) see, (real!) heads that (really!) think and (real!) mouths that (really!) speak; everywhere It (really!) listens; It (really!) dwells in all the worlds; It (really!) envelops them all.

Beyond the senses, It yet (really!) shines through every sense perception. Bound to nothing, It yet sustains everything. Unaffected by the Qualities, It still enjoys them all.

It is within all beings, yet outside; motionless yet moving; too subtle to be perceived; far away yet always near.

In all beings undivided, yet living in division, It is the upholder of all, Creator and Destroyer alike;

It is the Light of lights, beyond the reach of darkness; the Wisdom, the only thing that is worth knowing or that wisdom can teach; the (real!) Presence in the hearts of all."

Traditional (orthodox?) Advaitists are therefore Orwellian sleight-of-words (i.e. 'black-is-white', 'No-is-Yes') deniers and obscurers of The (real!) Truth that both Jesus and The Gita propounded, IMO.

Interesting to think about. It seems you have made an argument for the non-dual conception of reality, whether intentional or not IDK. Neti-Neti, and Yeti-yeti, are of course two fingers pointing to the same moon. I am not any one thing, I am all things, and all things are really one. God is in all things, and all things are in God.

.

Originally Posted by davidsun

Traditional (orthodox?) Advaitists are therefore deliberately ignore-ant (Orwellian?) sleight-of-words (i.e. 'black-is-white', 'No-is-Yes') deniers and obscurers of The (real!) Truth that both Jesus and The Gita propounded, IMO.

Not really. It's the difference between inherent existence and dependent existence. That's the mature understanding of Advaita. The "real" is inherent existent while the "unreal" is dependent existence (upon the "real" existence). Both are "real" in their own rights and "unreal" does not literally mean illusion or non-existent.

I suggest the above quote is applicable to the more radical among the Neo-Advaitists.

Two Steps to the Not-Two: Swami Sarvapriyananda

https://youtu.be/kPdsAPlK2Js

Originally Posted by ketzer

I am not any one thing, I am all things, and all things are really one. God is in all things, and all things are in God.

Yuppers, and considering Advaita doctrine states I am the Atman and the Atman is Brahman it can also be phrased as "All is within Me and I am within all".

Or:

"Earth, moon, stars and sun revolve inside me" ~ Baba Muktananda

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by davidsun

:Traditional (orthodox?) Advaitists are therefore deliberately ignore-ant (Orwellian?) sleight-of-words (i.e. 'black-is-white', 'No-is-Yes') deniers and obscurers of The (real!) Truth that both Jesus and The Gita propounded, IMO.

As the Gita also says (in Ch.2): "As a man can drink water from any side of a full tank, so the skilled theologian can wrest from any scripture that which will serve his purpose." Beware (meaning really be aware) , dudes and dudesses!

As JASG pointed out unreal or Mithya means fleeting , changing, transcient and it does not mean non-existent or mean some thing illusory which some not having enough knowledge use the word inter-changeably with Mithya/unreal.

Regarding theologian's freedom I would put it this way .

"As a man can drink water from any side of a full tank, so the skilled theologian can wrest from any scripture that which will serve HIS purpose."

God is sharp , quick and fast enough to gauge whose purpose is being served for His abode in our heart only . Nothing is hidden from Him .

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Interesting to think about. It seems you have made an argument for the non-dual conception of reality, whether intentional or not IDK. Neti-Neti, and Yeti-yeti, are of course two fingers pointing to the same moon. I am not any one thing, I am all things, and all things are really one. God is in all things, and all things are in God.

Yes, I have made such an argument, but I think you completely miss the significance of my 'point' that Neti, Neti-ers are unwittingly 'missing' what the idea of non-duality really 'points' to. Anyone who seriously entertains or promotes the notion that there is such a thing as unreality is delusional, IMO. Why? Because I am enlightened enough to 'see' that there Oneness consists of intersecting and overlapping multiplicities and that there no such thing as 'not' in such 'matrix'.

I am amazed by how Neti Neti-ers can deny logical contradictions which they swallow 'whole' - contradictions which are readily apparent to Yeti-Yeti-ers!