A Little About Reincarnation

Thanks friend.... Esoteric Philosophy... Alice Bailey... Nice to meet another Arcane School student..

When I write I try to avoid the technical terms which are so often given in Sanskrit. I try to just use plain English.

I met Bartholomew one day during a light meditation back in '91 (not so very long ago). On the forums I try to emphasize the reality of the lower spiritual worlds that are so much a part of our planet. They have real mechanisms which can be understood. I don't believe in "something from nothing"... illogical. Causes need not be secret or mysterious. Causes may be known (in everyday terms). The mind of the student is capable of understanding the processes of the Earth's subtle planes... which are so much a part of the story of man. Bartholomew tries to tie these, connect them to more common spiritual beliefs and practices in a way which leads the inquiring mind to the little realizations that can serve so very well. It is my belief that on this forum there are few, if any, beginners in matters of spirit. We all are poised for the future.

I have come t realize that consciousness is a universal principal inherent in all matter no matter the plane. So the personality, the man or woman on Earth may achieve self awareness easily. That degree of consciousness which is of the soul is simply the composite of it's long life. At a certain point the two are in close proximity. Now is when we quickly develop facility in spiritual matters as they are manifest on our home planet. It is my belief that when a woman or man is close to or at this point he or she may be attracted to the study of esoteria.

Thanks again and blessings...

Originally Posted by iamthat

Yes, thank you James.

Some further thoughts on the above.

Yes, the Soul functions on the higher mental sub-planes via the causal body. The causal body is the vehicle of consciousness just as the physical body is the vehicle of personality. The causal body provides the connecting link between the higher planes you mention (Atma-Buddhi-Manas) and the lower planes of personality.

The causal body contains what is termed the Egoic Lotus, which has layers of "petals" labelled knowledge, love and sacrifice (or will). These petals unfold over hundreds or thousands of incarnations. In very simplistic terms, the petals of knowledge unfold through all the learning experiences of life, the petals of love unfold when we are on the path of discipleship, and the petals of will unfold when we enter the portals of Initiation.

There comes a time when the causal body has served its purpose and is no longer needed as a connecting link (in Theosophical terms, this is the 4th Initiation). The Initiate has now built a direct bridge of consciousness between the higher planes and the lower planes. This bridge is called the antahkarana (or sometimes in Western terms, the rainbow bridge). Thus the causal body can be discarded and the Initiate now rests on the plane of Buddhi (or spiritual intuition).

You mention the point of decision. Again in Theosophical terms, this occurs at the 6th Initiation, whereupon the Initiate is a Master resting in Monadic consciousness. At this stage the Master can decide whether to remain on the path of Earth service or leave the Earth behind and continue the journey elsewhere.

Regarding the cord connecting the Soul to the physical body, this is known as the sutratma. As Bartholomew says, it steps down from the mental plane through the astral plane down to the etheric centres. It has two major threads, a thread of life connecting to the heart, and a thread of consciousness connecting to the head. The consciousness thread regularly withdraws from the head (for example, when we sleep). The life thread remains connected to the heart throughout the incarnation - the withdrawal of the life thread means the death of the physical body.

The joys of esoteric philosophy!

Peace

[freebird]

Thank you as well for the detailed answer, and also I would like to thank you for your honesty and for sharing your experience, really appreciated!

I got no idea how some people remember before being born, or past lives, perhaps memories are not brain-dependent as it was thought?

The materialist would tell that their 'proof' of people being the brain would be:

A)Alzheimer destroying the brain or NDE without experience, else labeled as a hallucination (oxygen deprived brain releasing chemicals), wishful thinking ancient fairy tales or charlatans B)Most people not remembering how it was before being born (so they assume it would be the same after death) C)Soul could not be detected, claiming that there is 0 evidence for all these...

Materialists would claim the higher ground by saying:

Evidence tends to turn up about things that DO exist. And Evidence tends NOT to turn up about things that DON’T exist.

For example:

There is no evidence that inflatable pigs exist. Such pigs might fly and would be difficult to confine to a cramped pigsty.

By contrast, there is a lot of evidence of pigs that are not inflatable. Such pigs can’t fly and so are easily confined to a cramped pigsty.

So if I understand correctly, regardless of someone's belief they will still exist after physical death, right? What about their memories and personality? So a skeptic would still be himself/herself skeptic after death? Would they be forced to 'live' after death?

Now, regarding NDEs, some say that they were on the brink of death, and that they 'temporary died as their heart stopped, confirmed by medics' but they were not aware of anything until being brought back to life. So there would be a blank gap period in between.

The thing that confused me is why some people experience something while others don't?

Thank you for reading.

Originally Posted by bartholomew

And thank you for the interesting comments. Not to be glib but if they didn't experience anything how did they know they had a NDE? Isn't there supposed to be some kind of reportable memory upon waking? I agree that it is not only possible but likely that someone on death's door will later have a memory caused by brain activity. There can be no doubt of the heightened level of activity in such a case. Was it a genunine out of body thing or was it an in body thing? Interesting to sort out.

I am very psychic in peculiar ways. But believe me when I say I am a world class skeptic. I won't believe something until I can't explain it otherwise. When I, James, type here on the forum it sometimes is just me. Like now. Other times when I go off into lengthy discourses on some topic there will have been a change in my consciousness. I am still sitting here typing but it's only dictation. My bud Bartholomew is giving the answer. Being conscious I can feel his stress in trying to find a way to satisfactorily explain something. This is the reason Bartholomew's statements are so often so long. OK back to the topic at hand.

I have never had a NDE but I, at almost 78 now, have very clear memories of a day or so before I was born. I remember my parents and how very young they looked. I saw a car that they had borrowed because they didn't have one of their own. I saw their house which turned out to be a motor hotel. I was always above and behind them. When I was about 14 I told this story to my mom because I wanted to know about it. She gasped and replied that we had been in that hotel for only a week before I was born and they had borrowed that car from a friend so they could get to the hospital without calling a cab. They never took any photos of that place or the car and I should not have known about it. This is true!!!! And... my awareness was that of an adult, not a child and certainly not an infant. I was fully aware. What I remember most clearly was the unusual silence of the scene. It was visual only. Was that experience the result of brain activity in the fetus? The above incident is truth. I have tried over the years to debunk it.


Souls are usually on their own plane all the time. The connections to the physical expression will vary. The common, less evolved human being is centered in the combination of emotions and lower mind. The connection from the soul reflects this. A (reported) silver cord made of astral plane matter connects to the solar plexus and and very tenuous connection (from the soul) is made to the head. Later when the soul is more evolved the man or woman on Earth is centered in the combination of heart and mind. Now the silver cord is anchored in the chest area and the thread to the head center is a more substantial quality.

How can a scientist detect these? It should be easy. I can't remember the name of the photographic method where through we can see the aura but the same should reveal these connectors. The reason is because they are made of ethereal plane matter which is only slightly less dense than the physical body. This is the reason so many of us can see "strange things" at times. Most clairvoyants use this facility to good advantage. I can feel ethereal bodies with my hands and do it with ease when doing a reading for someone. Apparently it doesn't matter in the slightest where they are. The thing that brings it all together is the first, the lowest of the subtle (spiritual) planes which are just as much a part of our Earth as the solids, liquids and gasses that we so easily observe. Maybe if science used that photographic method in a moving picture style in a controlled experiment. Set up when the subject is about to go to sleep. When we sleep we leave our physical bodies and usually float just above it. People in meditation sometimes do the same. We call it unconsciousness because the physical seems to be unresponsive but the mind is perhaps not. K photography, moving picture of a person sleeping or meditating might show the ethereal body and maybe the connecting cord too. It's worth considering.

For those who wonder about the specifics of how a soul on the mental plane can connect to a physical form using a cord made of ethereal matter this explanation will hopefully suffice. The soul, using will upon mental matter, sends a cord down through the various subplanes (through the lower mental then astral, all seven subplanes) and into the ethereal plane. On the mental plane this cord is made of mental matter. On the astral plane this cord has shifted down (think electrical step down transformers) to astral matter and on the ethereal it shifts down to ethereal plane matter.

The last part should be better understood. The cord, the connectors are made of ethereal plane matter. They connect to our ethereal doubles, our ethereal bodies which correspond to the physical. These are connected to the physical via the set of 49 chakras of the ethereal body. Via this means we are connected to the Earth's various sheaths and receive our "livingness" through them. The interface between the ethereal body and the physical body is an electrical one. The next interface is chemical. These two functions are important parts of the brain.

Here is one last thought. Remember I said I was a world class skeptic? There are so many examples of psychic activity in the world that we would be hard pressed to try to deny they really do happen. Indeed our military engages in remove viewing which is no less than more of the same. (they still do by the way... they just want our worthy opponents to think they've quit) I do NOT believe in magic (something from nothing. Not even God in heaven can create out of nothing. No. So if there is psychic activity that can be verified how does it work? There must be a medium through which visuals or audios or just vague intuitive ideas travel. This medium is quite real. It is, mostly, the Earth's subtle planes. Most human activity is on the astral, mid to higher range and the mental, mid to higher sub planes. It is through these that visions and ideas and sounds are conveyed. And they are made of the matter through which they travel. And they come into our bodies though the appropriate chakra. And then they are converted to electrical energies (modulated as thought they were radio waves) and finally are sorted out by the brain in the usual way. Remember that the pineal is connected to the visual cortex. Why? This is the physical organ of the third eye. Using this we have clairvoyant and clairaudiant experiences.

The serious researcher will follow the trail and if it dies on the cutting room floor then so be it. But seriously, if one would make a moving picture camera of the Kirlian type much might be observed especially if a video is made of someone asleep or in deep meditation or even during a NDE.

A last tidbit here is to say that I do remote aura examinations but when in person I can easily feel (using my hands) each of the chakras of the subject. I have done this many times. I always question what is going on. It's real.

Thanks for reading...

Thank you as well for the detailed answer, and also I would like to thank you for your honesty and for sharing your experience, really appreciated!

I got no idea how some people remember before being born, or past lives, perhaps memories are not brain-dependent as it was thought? No, they are not. But what memories are we speaking of? Those of a lifetime are recorded in both the brain and in it's ethereal double, linked to the appropriate level of the astral. Those from previous lifetimes are on the same astral level that was mentioned. In addition we may perceive memories that belong to others. All it takes is a moment of compatibility. Psychics do this often enough.

The materialist would tell that their 'proof' of people being the brain would be:

A)Alzheimer destroying the brain or NDE without experience, else labeled as a hallucination (oxygen deprived brain releasing chemicals), wishful thinking ancient fairy tales or charlatans B)Most people not remembering how it was before being born (so they assume it would be the same after death) C)Soul could not be detected, claiming that there is 0 evidence for all these... Someone with Alzheimer disease may have difficulties in waking consciousness but his or her memories are fully intact on the astral plane. Sometimes a lucid moment will occur. Perhaps this is representative of a momentary connection, a psychic experience, wherethrough the personality as it exists on the astral is contacted? Who knows? This is not to say the brain cannot malfunction resulting in all kinds of strange things like visuals or sounds, voices that seem real. They could originate in a brain with troubles. It's not smart to jump right in with the psychic talk until we have a real reason for doing so.

I was thinking lately that if I could start this life over again I would study and become an MD, a neurologist. Then I would have more opportunities to study and understand such things. Well there's always next time around. I've decided I want to be born on the Martian colony. I'm quite sure of this.

Materialists would claim the higher ground by saying:

Evidence tends to turn up about things that DO exist. And Evidence tends NOT to turn up about things that DON’T exist.

For example:

There is no evidence that inflatable pigs exist. Such pigs might fly and would be difficult to confine to a cramped pigsty.

By contrast, there is a lot of evidence of pigs that are not inflatable. Such pigs can’t fly and so are easily confined to a cramped pigsty. It's fun and interesting to consider all arguments but I like to think a scientist would be neither of those categories. I suppose it takes discipline but she or he should, it seems to me, to follow the trail to see where it leads. This sort of thing has been debated for so long that it is not likely any new arguments will be heard.



So if I understand correctly, regardless of someone's belief they will still exist after physical death, right? What about their memories and personality? So a skeptic would still be himself/herself skeptic after death? Would they be forced to 'live' after death? the physical Earth is roughly 8,000 miles in diameter at the equator. The ethereal Earth is just a bit larger. Imaging concentric shells here. The astral plane (shell) extends roughly 26,000 miles from the surface of the Earth so it's diameter is somewhere like 60,000 miles. The mental plane (shell) is larger still. This one extends beyond the orbit of the moon. Beyond these are areas where connections to higher planes are maintained. These are a whole different story. We, humanity, are "of the Earth". That is to say we have physical bodies, emotions and mind. All of these are products of the Earth and it's subtle planes. Interchanges of energies are continuous, non-ceasing, even after death. Our personalities are products of genetics, astrological influences and life experiences. They are imprinted in the brain. But they are also vital on the astral plane and certain sub planes of the mental. These have the ability to function independently of the body. So... when we pass we find ourselves in our ethereal bodies perhaps a few feet away from our bodies. We can still function. Why? Because we are still connected to our personalities as they exist on the astral and mental. Nothing was lost except the body. If we really are to die then we are guided upwards, we follow the soul connection (the silver cord) away from the ethereal and into the astral. In doing this we perceive the tunnel which is so often reported. In spiritual matter energy is seen as a black field by our eyes. So.... we see the tunnel as being black, concentrated and circular because it is pure high astral matter/energy. Further in the higher sub planes of the Earth's mental plane there are no straight lines. All, everything we see, is curves. As far as we can look we see distant scenes always curving out of sight. OK back to the personality. Now we are on the astral. We look around us and it seems like we are still on Earth. Everything is the same except that if we want to move about all we have to do is to think about it and we've moved. This is where we are met and, in the case of NDE's, where we stop and decide if we want to go on or return. Our personalities and memories are intact, again, because they are recorded in astral plane matter. And we can think because we are still connected to the familiar mental plane memories and personality attributes that were ours during the physical life just past.

This is what we find. If we go on we find we are now judging ourselves, reviewing our lifetime and adding up all the pluses and negatives. Our guides help us with this. Does God judge? In the sense that the creator is the ultimate caring source, yes. But we find ourselves doing it ourselves and we are quite capable of the task. After a time we "die again" in a sense. It's time to shuck off the lower spiritual bodies, the astral and lower mental and anything left from the ethereal, just as earlier let the physical go, and continue onward and upward to the higher end of the mental plane, to our more or less permanent home. Now we are met again by our friends and companions who have been with us since we were created. Any of these can be our soul mates. One or two more advanced will be our guides.

Now, regarding NDEs, some say that they were on the brink of death, and that they 'temporary died as their heart stopped, confirmed by medics' but they were not aware of anything until being brought back to life. So there would be a blank gap period in between. Whenever I read about NDE's it seems the accounts are the type where the subject leaves the body sometimes floating around the hospital, for instance, and seeing things, listening to staff or others, then comes back with a wonderful account of "guess what just happened". At this point the skeptics will be at a loss to understand how the subject could possibly know what was going on nearby in other rooms or in a floor above. I suppose if a person is clinically dead they can suddenly be revived, such as drownings in cold water, but is it a NDE if they didn't remember anything. I suppose it could be.

The thing that confused me is why some people experience something while others don't? I can only offer a guess here. We are all different. Those of us who are less attuned to the subtle worlds would probably not be so quick to "pop into them fully aware".

Lastly I recently spoke with a man who says he remembers being born. It was a vague memory according to him, but one that he recognized.

I hope I've answered satisfactorily. I am enjoying this exchange.

Thanks

Thank you for reading.

Originally Posted by freebird

Thank you as well for the detailed answer, and also I would like to thank you for your honesty and for sharing your experience, really appreciated!

I got no idea how some people remember before being born, or past lives, perhaps memories are not brain-dependent as it was thought?

The materialist would tell that their 'proof' of people being the brain would be:

A)Alzheimer destroying the brain or NDE without experience, else labeled as a hallucination (oxygen deprived brain releasing chemicals), wishful thinking ancient fairy tales or charlatans B)Most people not remembering how it was before being born (so they assume it would be the same after death) C)Soul could not be detected, claiming that there is 0 evidence for all these...

Materialists would claim the higher ground by saying:

Evidence tends to turn up about things that DO exist. And Evidence tends NOT to turn up about things that DON’T exist.

For example:

There is no evidence that inflatable pigs exist. Such pigs might fly and would be difficult to confine to a cramped pigsty.

By contrast, there is a lot of evidence of pigs that are not inflatable. Such pigs can’t fly and so are easily confined to a cramped pigsty.

So if I understand correctly, regardless of someone's belief they will still exist after physical death, right? What about their memories and personality? So a skeptic would still be himself/herself skeptic after death? Would they be forced to 'live' after death?

Now, regarding NDEs, some say that they were on the brink of death, and that they 'temporary died as their heart stopped, confirmed by medics' but they were not aware of anything until being brought back to life. So there would be a blank gap period in between.

The thing that confused me is why some people experience something while others don't?

Thank you for reading.

Unfortunately I do not understand much of this, but have to say that I do not want any more suffering!

Blessings

JL

(Thank you for sharing it; it's heartening to see how many people relate :-) and truth be told, I am just jealous)

[bobjob]

Originally Posted by janielee

Unfortunately I do not understand much of this, but have to say that I do not want any more suffering!

You're in good company! Most do not understand much of this, even those who may appear to do.

There are many ideas about how reincarnation works and fortunately it happens - or doesn't happen according to how one thinks - without us needing to understand until the time is right for us to understand. And that time is when we're not living in a human shell.

In your human shell quite understandably you do not want any more suffering and who would disagree at a human level? But at a more spiritually-elevated level, and with help and support, you may see matters very differently.

But that's all in your future.

We make too much of a big deal regarding reincarnation. I am guilty in this area myself.

We are human souls born to and residing more or less permanently in a particular area of a particular spiritual plane which is a part (an actual component) of the Earth "system".

The goal is to express and thus raise ourselves up to higher levels. We are compelled in this. We are "of the creator" and must migrate, returning to the source.

This sort of "raising up" is not a matter of mere knowledge. It's much more than that. We have to gain wisdom. But how to do this?

Knowledge can gained in our spiritual home but no so wisdom. Wisdom only results from meeting and overcoming adversity. This, we cannot do in heaven. The heavenly fields are segregated by vibrational signatures. Kindred souls tend to remain cloistered.

This is the reason we come to a dense planet like the Earth. Down here in the lower spiritual levels it is possible to mix it up with all types of people and situations. As we are totally immersed in these struggles we come out the other end with.... wisdom.

Sure, Earth is a tough choice but the rewards are stupendous. Souls that come to Earth for a series of lifetimes advance much quicker than those who opt for easy worlds.

Can we obtain true knowledge of what is really going on and thus realize how it all makes sense? Sure we can. Spiritual growth begins with promises taken on faith. These slowly morph into sure knowledge. Then after we apply what has been learned we gain that which frees us.... wisdom.

May I suggest you study the lives of holy men and women who, in history, have overcome all in service to humanity? This is not to say anyone can do that. It is to say we all can join those greater ones by doing just something good for someone each day. Here's an anology. If we owe money to a lender we are required to make a certain minimum payment each month. If we do this but pay a little extra as well then that amount over the required figure is applied to the loan principle. In this way the loan is paid much quicker and the pain of debt is reduced. OK so it's the same with our spiritual lives. We carry on but always doing just a bit more (help for someone in need) and the blessings flow like crazy. Later we find we have done the work of ascension.

What do you think?

James

Originally Posted by janielee

Unfortunately I do not understand much of this, but have to say that I do not want any more suffering!

Blessings

JL

(Thank you for sharing it; it's heartening to see how many people relate :-) and truth be told, I am just jealous)

[bobjob]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

We make too much of a big deal regarding reincarnation. I am guilty in this area myself.

We are human souls born to and residing more or less permanently in a particular area of a particular spiritual plane which is a part (an actual component) of the Earth "system".

The goal is to express and thus raise ourselves up to higher levels. We are compelled in this. We are "of the creator" and must migrate, returning to the source.

This sort of "raising up" is not a matter of mere knowledge. It's much more than that. We have to gain wisdom. But how to do this?

Knowledge can gained in our spiritual home but no so wisdom. Wisdom only results from meeting and overcoming adversity. This, we cannot do in heaven. The heavenly fields are segregated by vibrational signatures. Kindred souls tend to remain cloistered.

This is the reason we come to a dense planet like the Earth. Down here in the lower spiritual levels it is possible to mix it up with all types of people and situations. As we are totally immersed in these struggles we come out the other end with.... wisdom.

Sure, Earth is a tough choice but the rewards are stupendous. Souls that come to Earth for a series of lifetimes advance much quicker than those who opt for easy worlds.

Can we obtain true knowledge of what is really going on and thus realize how it all makes sense? Sure we can. Spiritual growth begins with promises taken on faith. These slowly morph into sure knowledge. Then after we apply what has been learned we gain that which frees us.... wisdom.

May I suggest you study the lives of holy men and women who, in history, have overcome all in service to humanity? This is not to say anyone can do that. It is to say we all can join those greater ones by doing just something good for someone each day. Here's an anology. If we owe money to a lender we are required to make a certain minimum payment each month. If we do this but pay a little extra as well then that amount over the required figure is applied to the loan principle. In this way the loan is paid much quicker and the pain of debt is reduced. OK so it's the same with our spiritual lives. We carry on but always doing just a bit more (help for someone in need) and the blessings flow like crazy. Later we find we have done the work of ascension.

What do you think?

James

What do I think? curate's egg - good in parts

Perhaps the proper course is to tentatively accept the good with the promise that it will bring the bad along with it in a tempering capacity. Who knows but maybe a change will occur and the next omelette will be tastier.

Originally Posted by bobjob

What do I think? curate's egg - good in parts

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

''To make better sense of all this we need only remember the reasons for us being incarnated in the first place.
We are here to learn but mere knowledge is not that which sets us free. No.
When we leave the human realm behind we take with us only the stores of wisdom gained.
A soul can learn without taking on a physical body but it cannot become wise.
Only on the lower planes, a solid physical world such as Earth, is it possible to meet and overcome
the adversity which has as it's child, wisdom.
At any given time on Earth most of humanity is of the lower order, most of those who have grown have left
for new post human adventures in other places.
And the process of creation of new human souls continues. ''


Very nice. :)

Well said !

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

We make too much of a big deal regarding reincarnation. I am guilty in this area myself.

We are human souls born to and residing more or less permanently in a particular area of a particular spiritual plane which is a part (an actual component) of the Earth "system".

The goal is to express and thus raise ourselves up to higher levels. We are compelled in this. We are "of the creator" and must migrate, returning to the source.

This sort of "raising up" is not a matter of mere knowledge. It's much more than that. We have to gain wisdom. But how to do this?

Knowledge can gained in our spiritual home but no so wisdom. Wisdom only results from meeting and overcoming adversity. This, we cannot do in heaven. The heavenly fields are segregated by vibrational signatures. Kindred souls tend to remain cloistered.

This is the reason we come to a dense planet like the Earth. Down here in the lower spiritual levels it is possible to mix it up with all types of people and situations. As we are totally immersed in these struggles we come out the other end with.... wisdom.

Sure, Earth is a tough choice but the rewards are stupendous. Souls that come to Earth for a series of lifetimes advance much quicker than those who opt for easy worlds.

Can we obtain true knowledge of what is really going on and thus realize how it all makes sense? Sure we can. Spiritual growth begins with promises taken on faith. These slowly morph into sure knowledge. Then after we apply what has been learned we gain that which frees us.... wisdom.

May I suggest you study the lives of holy men and women who, in history, have overcome all in service to humanity? This is not to say anyone can do that. It is to say we all can join those greater ones by doing just something good for someone each day. Here's an anology. If we owe money to a lender we are required to make a certain minimum payment each month. If we do this but pay a little extra as well then that amount over the required figure is applied to the loan principle. In this way the loan is paid much quicker and the pain of debt is reduced. OK so it's the same with our spiritual lives. We carry on but always doing just a bit more (help for someone in need) and the blessings flow like crazy. Later we find we have done the work of ascension.

What do you think?

James

Ramana Maharshi has stated that the "reincarnating ego is of the lower planes". What are your thoughts about that ?