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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #11  
Old 04-04-2020, 07:44 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Favor - could you not place my name with his, ever? Thanks in advance.

Perhaps the Divine has sent David to challenge your unconditional love and acceptance.

What a game the Divine plays.

Peace
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  #12  
Old 04-04-2020, 08:32 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Perhaps the Divine has sent David to challenge your unconditional love and acceptance.
What a game the Divine plays.
Peace
Perhaps? I probably have been at this Game longer than you!
(Cuz I'm getting so old, I mean.)

Now this is an interesting thing and has to do with the topic of ceasing, too:

Christians usually believe we are to love our neighbors as our self, right? Very nice.
Treat them as we would like to be treated, no?

Guess, how I love myself, now - how I treat myself, now---I turn away from those parts of me that are
worthless or detrimental to my peace and joy.
As easily as turning a channel. I don't coddle my undesirable parts;
I am more of a spiritual warrior since 2005 within myself...more so than even in the 1970's!


I have learned I can wish someone well, understand they are where they are on their Path -
ever learning, growing, changing, blossoming as we all are.
Even feel maternal towards their smelly, messy bedroom...
But I don't have to bring my dinner into that room.
That God dwells in them as well as with everything in creation...I surely have been shown that decades ago.

However, I do not have to care for their present mindset, (nor mine, you see).
I can turn my back on it (the mindset and the thoughts) and proceed in a more pleasant direction, ie,
change the channel in my thoughts or turn away from a smelly trash can or walk away from an unpleasant person...with no
judgment, no malice, but a definite preference...a choice.

It's like I can love and respect a fly -but, I still flick it off my bare arm, because it's a bother and
an unnecessary distraction to me and to others.

I can go, 'eww', if you wave spoiled blue cheese under my nose - as opposed to a rose.






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*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


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  #13  
Old 04-04-2020, 11:22 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
***

Take any spiritual experience, be it in doing or non-doing, prayer, meditation, chanting, self-inquiry or whatever, we begin by cessation of sorts. Surrender.

Cessation shifts focus of attention to identity rested dynamic stillness if we are truly immersed in the continuum of emptiness.

Ceasing grasping we position ourselves for connecting with our own divinity within. The connection leads us into an inner experience we can neither anticipate nor control. In fact cessation implies surrendering doership or control.

As such, this is a pathless path. No format. No ritual. No practice. We simply follow the scent, metaphorically speaking.

This orientation has worked wondrously well for me.

I look forward to hear what you all feel about this?

***

that worked... for a while.... my current problem though is I've become addicted to the idea that if you do something you get something... and the spirits decided to react by not letting me get something by doing... so if I try cessation as a 'means to reach divinity' for example I would be sorely disappointed when I didn't reach the goal.

OTOH I do realize cessation is a nice and helpful thing to do... and I might not see it the same way if I'd been trying to get somewhere so as usual the spirits are smart...
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  #14  
Old 05-04-2020, 01:00 AM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Guess, how I love myself, now - how I treat myself, now---I turn away from those parts of me that are
worthless or detrimental to my peace and joy.
As easily as turning a channel. I don't coddle my undesirable parts;
That points to exactly what I think is 'missing' from your philosophy (and similar ones., Miss H.

Just favoring/savoring 'lollipos' and turning away from what is not to your 'liking'. It's all 'God', but some aspects of 'God' are rapists, con-men and con-women (i.e. seducers), child abusers and abandoners (Buddha an example of the latter ), etc., etc., etc., etc. I submit to you as a very practical (not pie-in-the-sky or polyanna-nice-nice-just-'love'-everyone) proposition that, if the quality of relational Life is to 'improve' and the level of Wisdom in Humanity is to 'rise', we all have to do out what is necessary (each just according to her or his level of ability, of course) to 'call' people to 'conscience' and 'prod' them to go beyond self-indulgent and other-negligent ways - that is what I am doing, in many cases, in this case in relation to you, here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
I am more of a spiritual warrior since 2005 within myself...more so than even in the 1970's!
I have no doubt that that is the case. I just won't 'ratify' your not developing further as a soul - IMO, there's way too much 'back scratching' ("you scratch my back and I'll be happy to scratch yours") no matter what going on in the name' of 'unconditional' love here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
I have learned I can wish someone well, understand they are where they are on their Path -
ever learning, growing, changing, blossoming as we all are.
Even feel maternal towards their smelly, messy bedroom...
But I don't have to bring my dinner into that room.
I don't want you to bring your 'dinner' into this conversation/room, though your are of course welcome to if that's your choice. I am asking as well as prodding you to honestly/genuinely (you don't have to agree with anything that I say) engage in mutually meaningful conversation in relation to/with what I say.

Just imagine a family in which members are expressing seriously differing opinions pertaining to 'matters of importance to them'. And imagine a 'mother' (or a 'brother' or a 'sister' or, worse, a 'father'!) simply choosing to say, as Unseeking Seeker says to us, "Thanks" to the disagreeing members. I call that an unconscionable cop-out and abdication of member response-ability.

Your unwillingness to engage with me (albeit I also completely understand such ego-isolating, dissociative choice) and 'negative' campaign in my direction is even more morally (I mean 'moral' in a 'practical' sense) reprehensible, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
I can turn my back on it (the mindset and the thoughts) and proceed in a more pleasant direction, ie,
change the channel in my thoughts or turn away from a smelly trash can or walk away from an unpleasant person...with no
judgment, no malice, but a definite preference...a choice.
Yes, you can certainly just keep sucking on lollipops as well, if that's your 'wish'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
It's like I can love and respect a fly -but, I still flick it off my bare arm, because it's a bother and an unnecessary distraction to me and to others.

I can go, 'eww', if you wave spoiled blue cheese under my nose - as opposed to a rose.
Dealing with disagreements can indeed be a less than 'pleasant' spiritual task. I totally agree with/you will get no disagreement from me on that point.
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  #15  
Old 05-04-2020, 01:47 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
that worked... for a while.... my current problem though is I've become addicted to the idea that if
you do something you get something... and the spirits decided to react by not letting me get something by doing...
so if I try cessation as a 'means to reach divinity' for example I would be sorely disappointed when I didn't reach the goal.

OTOH I do realize cessation is a nice and helpful thing to do... and I might not see it the same way
if I'd been trying to get somewhere so as usual the spirits are smart...
Could you give an example -of doing something and not getting by doing something?
I didn't know if you meant spiritually or a physical thing.
Thanks in advance.
__________________

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*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


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  #16  
Old 05-04-2020, 02:47 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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That the animal component of human beings is aggressive and unilateral - wants to dominate or take without giving.

The strictly human wants to give only conditionally, e.g., wants to get something in return, reciprocity, quid-pro-quo, giving requires getting, etc.

The divinely human is able to give without any expectation of getting in return; it’s unconditional, and part of that is a detachment that is required of having no expectation. Giving by completely letting go. A cessation of expectation of return, and a cessation of attachment to result in that expectation.

This is what creates receptivity and freedom.

It's actually a trust in the Divine.



~ J



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  #17  
Old 05-04-2020, 02:57 PM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir




That the animal component of human beings is aggressive and unilateral - wants to dominate or take without giving.

The strictly human wants to give only conditionally, e.g., wants to get something in return, reciprocity, quid-pro-quo, giving requires getting, etc.

The divinely human is able to give without any expectation of getting in return; it’s unconditional, and part of that is a detachment that is required of having no expectation. Giving by completely letting go. A cessation of expectation of return, and a cessation of attachment to result in that expectation.

This is what creates receptivity and freedom.

It's actually a trust in the Divine.



~ J




***

Yes and I’d like to add that cessation requires stilling anticipation based on memory drawn imagery as well, allowing ourselves to remain in a continuum attentively poised to embrace surprise in childlike delight!

***
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  #18  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:08 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Here's what I see as (some of) what's missing (or distorted by way of stereotyping) in your classification scheme, J:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
That the animal component of human beings is aggressive and unilateral - wants to dominate or take without giving.
There are many species of social 'animals' which demonstrably exhibit a significant range of 'friendship', mutual 'caring' and 'generosity', some even in relation to members of other species.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
The strictly human wants to give only conditionally, e.g., wants to get something in return, reciprocity, quid-pro-quo, giving requires getting, etc.
There is no such thing (IMO) as what you designate as being 'strictly' 'human' - except maybe in the most extreme narcissistic, sociopathic, psychopathic, etc. cases and probably not even in them. Can you authoritatively claim that Dahmer, say, didn't or never did relate to anyone in a spirit of 'friendship', mutual 'caring' and 'generosity' such that he didn't just 'give' "only conditionally, e.g., want to get something in return," etc.? IOW, Is there anyone you know who completely meets your criterion of being what you choose to call "strictly human"? In my view, strictly speaking now, what characterizes 'human' attitude and relational behavior is that it spans an infinite range, from completely selfish, to familial, to clannish, to tribal, to ethnographic, to anthropocentric, to cosmically all-inclusive and completely self-transcendent psychospiritual ‘i’dentifications and corollary allegiances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
[color="Navy"]The divinely human is able to give without any expectation of getting in return; it’s unconditional, and part of that is a detachment that is required of having no expectation. Giving by completely letting go. A cessation of expectation of return, and a cessation of attachment to result in that expectation.
In my view, what you call (classify as being) 'divinely human' references the last in the list of my above-classifications; however I think that your use of the word 'divine' may result in undue 'idolization' of said class of humans which amounts to 'false' kind of 'deification' of said 'class'. The truth is that all Life is 'divine' because Life Itself is 'divine', at least that's the truth in my view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
This is what creates receptivity and freedom. It's actually a trust in the Divine.
Both 'receptivity' and 'freedom' is a function of Intelligence and Love of Life which, in tandem, are present to some degree in every aspect of Life - IOW every aspect of Life is somewhat 'receptive' and somewhat 'free' and somewhat 'trusts' 'the divine' (i.e. Life Itself).

There is a lot of unintelligent and blindly trusting 'acceptance' and 'giving' which I personally would classify as being ignorant and compulsively self-serving (the latter because in said 'acceptance' and 'giving' reinforces the 'feeling' that Life is and/or one is 'good') - this even though, in actuality, such 'acceptance' and 'giving' is far from being optimally augmentative of the Quality of The Flow of Life, as I'm fairly sure you recognize is the case in the case of most of the 'adherents' of 'religions' and 'philosophic belief-systems' which you do not personally gravitate towards and endorse, said 'religious' folks all thinking (and so feeling) that their religions are 'divinely' inspired and said philosophical groupies all thinking (and so feeling) that their philosophies are based on 'flawlessy' intelligent (i.e. unbiased) analyses.

Relating to the topic of this thread, I think there is no such thing as 'cessation', only an ever-ongoing Flow-progression of Life which Flow-progression Itself is 'divine' (wouldn't you agree with the latter proposition at least, Unseeker Seeker?)
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  #19  
Old 08-04-2020, 05:01 PM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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***

David, rather than focusing on ‘cessation’ or ‘flow progression’, it is not the words per say but the intent or reference to context we ought to consider.

Cessation of what aspect? Flow progression from which fulcrum?

Cessation is of stagnation of our attention, mired in mind-body, identity enhancing cravings in the external. Or to put it more simply, cessation of thought. We get to awareness without thought, devoid of even memory imagery or anticipation.

We have discussed this many times but Ill try once again

When we stop the flow of thought, we are simply aware in effortless ease, being our native state, unencumbered by what we think we know. Meditation. The doer or identity disappears. Yet, the ‘flow progression’ as you put it, continues, albeit, now unbound.

What happens next is an inner experience, where, putting it loosely, consciousness expands, enriched.

For mind centric people, the problem in relating to this is the resistance to letting go of identity (mind-body) generated thought.

Likewise, when we say flow progression/flow of life etc., where is the fulcrum of our attention? Liken it to two people looking out of a window, seeing differently, feeling differently.

Unless we get to cessation (of mind-body/ thought) or as you say flow progression (from a centreless fulcrum), the narrow spectrum we experience is akin to a dead man walking.

Now, I’ll leave you with these impressions, without getting into a debate about it, allowing if it helps, that you know more about these matters than me.

All the best!

***
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  #20  
Old 09-04-2020, 01:25 AM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
When we stop the flow of thought, we are simply aware in effortless ease, being our native state, unencumbered by what we think we know. Meditation. The doer or identity disappears. Yet, the ‘flow progression’ as you put it, continues, albeit, now unbound.
If you thihk that will or does work for the best for you (at this point in your process), fine. As I have stated, I think that such a philosophy and practice short-changes (to put it mildly) relational Life. Among other things, this is based on my observation of the very unfortunate 'social' consequences (I grew up on India and witnessed first-hand the self-centeredness and other-abandonment (arm-chair 'compassion' just doesn't cut the relational reponse-ability mustard in my view) of so-called 'holy men' choosing dissociation as a 'way' of Life as a means of attain personal experience of 'bliss'. Hence my stating what I state as a counter-opinion.

I am not saying this is what I 'describe' is what you are actually doing. I don't know enough about your actual relational life to make any kind of assessment in that regard. I am just speaking in general terms about what I see as liabilities which potentially derive from the conceptualizations you embrace and promulgate 'in words' here.
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