WHO IS THE DOER

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

The wind blows through all the trees and we see the leaves move...

We say "look, the leaves are moving" but the leaves are still stationary to the wind which moves them.

The manifestation of Kriya Shakti is always the same, even though perception makes us view it differently...the same electricity which can produce heat can also produce cold...and the Light of Wisdom is that "Light Without Heat"....It was Steve Vai who taught me that one ..

Which brings to mind the Zen story:

Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: "The flag is moving."

The other said: "No, the wind is moving."

The sixth patriarch happened to be passing by. He told them: "Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving."

Peace

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Which brings to mind the Zen story:

Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: "The flag is moving."

The other said: "No, the wind is moving."

The sixth patriarch happened to be passing by. He told them: "Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving."

Peace

So very true and accurate. Thank you for sharing

I am a fan of Zen stories but I had not heard that one before.

Within the auspices of Brahman, there is no "doer" and nothing ever being "done".

Not only must the realization of being the "doer" be dropped, but also the awareness of being the conduit through which things get "done" according to the Universal Law of Cause vs Effect ...it is the ultimate "Duality".

Some call this "Karma" and therefore Karma Yoga ascribed the performance of actions just for the sake of their performance to "kill the ego" which has any vested interest in that action as 'whatever' manifestation of Prakriti is experienced at the time in any sort of a dual juxtaposition to Purusha.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

So very true and accurate. Thank you for sharing

I am a fan of Zen stories but I had not heard that one before.

Within the auspices of Brahman, there is no "doer" and nothing ever being "done".

Not only must the realization of being the "doer" be dropped, but also the awareness of being the conduit through which things get "done" according to the Universal Law of Cause vs Effect ...it is the ultimate "Duality".

Some call this "Karma" and therefore Karma Yoga ascribed the performance of actions just for the sake of their performance to "kill the ego" which has any vested interest in that action as 'whatever' manifestation of Prakriti is experienced at the time in any sort of a dual juxtaposition to Purusha.

Yes, I too enjoy these Zen stories.

Regarding the Doer, here is something from Poonjaji (I may have previously quoted this elsewhere):

In the first few months after this visit (to Ramana Maharshi), I didn't have a single thought. ... Whether I was sitting in the hall with the Maharishi, walking round the mountain or shopping in town, everything I did was performed without any mental activity at all. There was an ocean of inner silence that never gave rise to even a ripple of thought. It did not take me long to realise that a mind and thoughts are not necessary to function in the world. When one abides as the Self, some divine power takes charge of one's life. All actions then take place spontaneously, and are performed very efficiently, without any mental effort or activity.

Peace

[Uday_Advaita]

[quote=inavalan]Never thought in terms of "who's the Doer?". I'm not even sure that I understand exactly what you mean ... maybe in terms of "by choice vs. by design", and "free will" (?)

At some point in my life it became imperative to find answers to the questions: "why am I here?", "what am I supposed to do?". Now I believe I know.

I also realized that all my life I had opportunities to learn specific things, but I didn't recognize them; then those opportunities popped up again and again until seemingly I was ready to make use of them.

How did that happen? I believe an inner guide, patiently, assisted and assists me, while not forcing me, and not creating or setting up anything for me by himself.

Hello Inavalan
Thanks for putting your understanding so nicely. We are all seeking answers to questions that pop up in our unrelenting minds. “Why I am here?” What I am supposed to do?” I have also contemplated on these questions. My experience led me to understand that – There is no special purpose for this Mind Body Apparatus to be here. What I am supposed to do will and have always depended upon the situation unfolding in the present moment and my intent on securing my welfare. The action that happened was always right at that moment. However, it may have turned out to be wrong (particularly with regard to my welfare) after it happened.

Your understanding led you to believe that there is a guide which is assisting a separate you to lead your life with best of intent so as to create a life of your choice.

My experience is that, there is this Mind Body Apparatus which exactly does what the non-dual life force acting through it has programmed and conditioned it for.

For me the problem arises when in spite of the understanding, this intruding mind refuses to fully accept ….. “what is - could not be / could not have been - otherwise”

Namaskar

[Uday_Advaita]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

The wind blows through all the trees and we see the leaves move...

We say "look, the leaves are moving" but the leaves are still stationary to the wind which moves them.

The manifestation of Kriya Shakti is always the same, even though perception makes us view it differently...the same electricity which can produce heat can also produce cold...and the Light of Wisdom is that "Light Without Heat"....It was Steve Vai who taught me that one ..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NiTXGswyAls

Very nice perspective. Thanks

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Uday_Advaita

Very nice perspective. Thanks

I appreciate your appreciation for the appreciation it is.

[Shivani Devi]

OMG...Massive download..channeled while I was meditating in the shower with water running on my head...my favorite place to meditate...

Ready?

All notions of Karmic do-ership arise from fluctuations of Prana within the Manipura Chakra (Solar Plexus) which is usually why we tend to rely on "gut instincts" a lot...this is meaning of kaarya:

Kārya (कार्य, “action”) refers to one of the “five elements of the plot” (arthaprakṛti), according to the Nāṭyaśāstra chapter 21. These five elements represents the five means of attaining objects of the plot (itivṛtta or vastu) through the five senses (karma-indriyas...shortened to Karmendriyas)..

*I will have you all learning Sanskrit yet...it is SO easy guys*

The associated ‘stage of action’ (avasthā) of the kārya is at the prārambha (beginning). These stages represent a Hero’s striving towards the object in dramatic playwrighting (nāṭaka).

There is a very large Nadi (energy channel) which has a close approximation to the Vagus Nerves in the physical body....in fact, you can pretty much call the Right Vagus nerve and the Left Vagus nerve, 'Pingala' and 'Ida' respectively.

At this level of the Manipura Chakra, the "do-er" is created..."doing" things for an "ego" to benefit the physical and mental body (Annamaya Kosha and Manomaya Kosha).

The first thing we become aware of is "I am eating...look at what I am doing...food was there.. now it is gone and I am responsible for that... look at me go and watch me defecate"..well, that is the energy of Manipura Chakra.

As this energy rises up to the Anahata Chakra (Heart Chakra), it is all about "doing" things for other people and not oneself...but you are still aware of "doing" just your reasons for "doing" whatever you are "doing" change and so now you have become more noble and "doing" is based on compassion and empathy.

As this energy rises up to the Vishuddhi Chakra (Throat Chakra) it is "I am not only "doing" but creating, according to my inner Truth and Guidance"...there is still a "do-er"...the one who must resort to using cultural symbology when words fail and then experiences a freedom in "doing" which is unrestrained by time and space (Chit-akaasha).

As this energy reaches the Ajna Chakra (Third Eye) one may become aware of another consciousness imparting of itself AS the "do-er", while any awareness is only a witness or observant TO it...form and function are still distinct yet inseparable, as is cause and effect... Dualistic notions become interchangeable yet still exist at the level of immutable reciprocity.

When that energy reaches Sahasrara or Crown Chakra...

"What is that which could ever get done which would require a do-er of it anyway? ...now excuse me while this body walks itself under the direction of the mind to go and procure a towel to stop water dripping from the head and all over my dumbphone".

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

@ Shivani ... thanks for sharing your insight!

Or we may say, when we can distinguish a thought arising from mind-body vs an impulse from Universal consciousness?

***

[Uday_Advaita]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Yes, I too enjoy these Zen stories.

Regarding the Doer, here is something from Poonjaji (I may have previously quoted this elsewhere):

In the first few months after this visit (to Ramana Maharshi), I didn't have a single thought. ... Whether I was sitting in the hall with the Maharishi, walking round the mountain or shopping in town, everything I did was performed without any mental activity at all. There was an ocean of inner silence that never gave rise to even a ripple of thought. It did not take me long to realise that a mind and thoughts are not necessary to function in the world. When one abides as the Self, some divine power takes charge of one's life. All actions then take place spontaneously, and are performed very efficiently, without any mental effort or activity.

Peace

There was a story about Nisargadatta Maharaj related by Ramesh Balsekar.
One day during satsang a visitor asked Maharaj:

"If a man comes here with a gun and starts shooting, what will you do?"
Maharaj replied - "I don't know"
Everyone laughed at the convenient reply.
Maharaj looked at Ramesh and asked him - "Why you did not laugh"
Ramesh said - "I can't imagine, you would utter a lie"
Maharaj smiled. There was a silence in the room
The visitor asked Ramesh - "What do you mean?"
Ramesh looked at Maharaj who smiled and gave permission to explain.
Ramesh said - "When Maharaj said -I don't know - He meant that he really does not know how the Mind Body apparatus will react in such a situation. The source will take over and whatever is required in the moment will happen."
Namaskar

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

@ Shivani ... thanks for sharing your insight!

Or we may say, when we can distinguish a thought arising from mind-body vs an impulse from Universal consciousness?

***

Not even!

I like the Poonjaji quote given by "iamthat" it sums this up nicely.