Ashtavakra Gita

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Speaking of 'radical' versions of philosophies, if you think of people who believe 'radical' versions of what's in The Bible or The Quran, you will know why people who are 'devoted' or 'dedicated' to what's put forth in the Ashtavakra Gita gives me the heeby-jeebies.

And, oh, BTW: isn't regarding/saying that certain aspects of That Which Is are 'real' and other aspects of That Which Is are 'unreal' really dualistic, strictly speaking that is?

This is not to say that the experiences you recount weren't 'real' ones, Miss H. Am only sharing what I consider to really be non-dualistic 'philosophy' here.

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Thanks- I love this Swami - what he says is a great reminder to me...I will repeat - since 5 yr old I had an exp
of another 'consciousness' looking out of my eyes --and it was no 5 yr old! Then at 8 the exp (as I was stunned having the exp) that
everything we see is a dream...made of dream stuff.
And I have had this exp many more times that if my eyes are open I am seeing nothing that is real. (And not on drugs!)
This is a wonderful thing for me - because I know what is Real now.

Ha, then later as an adult I found out about quantum physics - yay - I knew it.
Ah, life is such fun!!!

My earliest "memory" is from when I was four months old. I never related it to anyone until my early twenties, and then only to my mom. She said "You can't remember that, you were only four months old!".

I put memory in quotes because it was me but it wasn't me and it certainly wasn't a four month old infant's observing capacity, intellect or emotional state. It was an OBE and I was observing the whole scene.

We were at the family cabin on Loon Lake in the Adirondacks and it had just hit midnight. One of those old radios, you know the kind that taper up almost like an inverted teardrop? Back in the day (it was 1959) many radio stations signed off at midnight and played a sign-off tune or melody. The sign-off melody for that radio station really annoyed my four month old body because it was wailing up a storm. Mom was cradling it, trying to sooth it and dad was on the other side of the kitchen table, softly chuckling.

I was above and behind mom, dispassionately observing the entire room, not the least bit disturbed about anything. Simply experiencing it. The Witness.

I can go through my entire life and that witness consciousness has been ever present, unchanging. How many times has the body turned over it's cells? How much have I learned and how much have I forgotten? How many times has my emotional state evolved and devolved? Beliefs picked up and discarded? Yet through it all that observer has been the steady rock of my existence, never changing, always present, always dispassionately observing, always directly experiencing.

That is what I am and it's just not a faculty within me. It's also not just a faculty similar to one within you. It is the same exact thing and everyone and everything is within It. It is the Atman. It is the Absolute.

There's not a shadow of doubt left within me about Its nature and My nature.

Originally Posted by davidsun

According to the entry in Wikipedia:

"Ashtavakra Gita is a dialogue between Ashtavakra and Janaka on the nature of soul, reality and bondage.[9] It offers a radical version of non-dualistic philosophy. The Gita insists on the complete unreality of external world and absolute oneness of existence. It does not mention any morality or duties, and therefore is seen by commentators as 'godless'. It also dismisses names and forms as unreal and a sign of ignorance."

According to the people who wrote this, it is only a version of non-dualistic philosophy, by no means agreed on as MAIN-stream non-dualistic philosophy by all non-dualists, of which 'group' I consider myself one.

It is for those who want to think that they and others around them and our world are just fictional figments of their and others' imaginations, I guess.

https://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.i.../the_atman.htm

"What does the Advaitist declare? He says, if there is a God, that God must be both the material and the efficient cause of the universe. Not only is He the creator, but He is also the created. He Himself is this universe. How can that be? God, the pure, the spirit, has become the universe? Yes; apparently so. That which all ignorant people see as the universe does not really exist. What are you and I and all these things we see? Mere self-hypnotism; there is but one Existence, the Infinite, the Ever-blessed One. In that Existence we dream all these various dreams. It is the Atman, beyond all, the Infinite, beyond the known, beyond the knowable; in and through That we see the universe. It is the only Reality. It is this table; It is the audience before me; It is the wall; It is everything, minus the name and form. Take away the form of the table, take away the name; what remains is It."



Does that frighten you?

If you truly understand it shouldn't.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

....I was above and behind mom, dispassionately observing the entire room,
not the least bit disturbed about anything. Simply experiencing it.
The Witness.

I can go through my entire life and that witness consciousness has been ever present, unchanging. ...

Yes, lucky us.
Hard for others when they haven't exp'd these things. I know.
But wow - 4 months old. I know people that went thru Re-birthing Therapy - that remembered even their birth. Not me.
I go back to pre-walking in a play pen tho (without that therapy)...and what a memory that is!
As vivid as if it were yesterday.
I found myself fascinated by this 'new place' I was in, short version!!!

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Yes, lucky us.
Hard for others when they haven't exp'd these things. I know.
But wow - 4 months old. I know people that went thru Re-birthing Therapy - that remembered even their birth. Not me.
I go back to pre-walking in a play pen tho (without that therapy)...and what a memory that is!
As vivid as if it were yesterday.
I found myself fascinated by this 'new place' I was in, short version!!!

Because of that experience and another profound vision experience during my LSD period I had a deep interest in consciousness, but I have to give the man credit: Sadhguru. After all my curiosity and interest, a thousand hours of meditation, many multiples of that amount of time invested in reading and videos since 2008 concerning consciousness it was a simple statement by Sadhguru about "opening up a little space between awareness and mind" that opened it all up for me.

Funny how after enormous investments of effort and time such a simple several word sentence heard maybe half a dozen times pried away that last barrier. LOL!

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Funny how after enormous investments of effort and time such a simple several word
sentence heard maybe half a dozen times pried away that last barrier. LOL!

Last barrier, eh? I relate ---I haven't come to the 'last' barrier yet ....but many, many doors have opened into the Magical Kingdom!

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Last barrier, eh? I relate ---I haven't come to the 'last' barrier yet ....but many, many doors have opened into the Magical Kingdom!

I'm calling the last barrier the 'illusion' of maya.

At least according to Advaita maya has two powers. The power to project and the power to veil. Maya's power of projection didn't fall for me (that would be Arjuna's experience in the Gita), but its power to veil did, and quite significantly for those 5 or 6 weeks when it was an intensely wild ride.

It's so very weird to look at other people and see one's Self, and when they return your look it's almost as if there's this knowing look in their eyes. Like they're going to nod and wink. LOL! To drive down the highway or interstate and it almost seems as if the roadside trees greet you as you drive past them. Or hiking in the forest with the constant feeling of someone or something off to the side or behind but there's nothing but trees and the occasional small critter. Or how the sun and moon seemingly greet you when they rise and bid farewell when they set.

So no extraordinary 'powers' except those several experiences related in my first thread, however I'd say the 'realization' experience was extraordinary and the single-most extraordinary thing I've ever experienced and by light years!

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I'm calling the last barrier the 'illusion' of maya.
At least according to Advaita maya has two powers. The power to project and the power to veil. Maya's power of projection didn't fall for me (that would be Arjuna's experience in the Gita), but its power to veil did, and quite significantly for those 5 or 6 weeks when it was an intensely wild ride.
It's so very weird to look at other people and see one's Self, and when they return your look it's almost as if there's this knowing look in their eyes. Like they're going to nod and wink. LOL! To drive down the highway or interstate and it almost seems as if the roadside trees greet you as you drive past them.
Or hiking in the forest with the constant feeling of someone or something off to the side or behind
but there's nothing but trees and the occasional small critter. Or how the sun and moon seemingly greet you when they rise and bid farewell when they set.
So no extraordinary 'powers' except those several experiences related in my first thread, however I'd say the 'realization' experience was extraordinary and the single-most extraordinary thing I've ever experienced and by light years!

You are in a VERY good space!!!! Yes, we are never alone! I know! I love it.
( I've Practiced the Presence for years...in fact, I recommend
"Practicing the Presence'' by Joel S. Goldsmith to everyone.
A friend said that's the book he would take to a deserted island.)

The Quickening is happening, imo.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

https://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.i.../the_atman.htm

"What does the Advaitist declare? He says, if there is a God, that God must be both the material and the efficient cause of the universe. Not only is He the creator, but He is also the created. He Himself is this universe. How can that be? God, the pure, the spirit, has become the universe? Yes; apparently so. That which all ignorant people see as the universe does not really exist. What are you and I and all these things we see? Mere self-hypnotism; there is but one Existence, the Infinite, the Ever-blessed One. In that Existence we dream all these various dreams. It is the Atman, beyond all, the Infinite, beyond the known, beyond the knowable; in and through That we see the universe. It is the only Reality. It is this table; It is the audience before me; It is the wall; It is everything, minus the name and form. Take away the form of the table, take away the name; what remains is It."

Does that frighten you?

If you truly understand it shouldn't.

You keep projecting 'fear' away from yourself - in this case onto me, I think!.

Analogically speaking: I know that my finger is (really!) a part of me and my finger knows the same. Neither my finger nor I make a 'big' deal of the fact, however. We are both too busy just 'doing our thing'. Imagine a finger perseveratively 'glorifying' and axiomatically asserting said fact by saying to itself and its neighbor fingers "The 'me' that I experience and the 'me' that you experience are the only 'reality' there is! Woohoo!!!! Does that frighten you?" and you just may get a glimmer of what I mean.

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

You are in a VERY good space!!!! Yes, we are never alone! I know! I love it.
( I've Practiced the Presence for years...in fact, I recommend
"Practicing the Presence'' by Joel S. Goldsmith to everyone.
A friend said that's the book he would take to a deserted island.)

The Quickening is happening, imo.

"Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee."

That's my impression of the purpose behind all spiritual practices and why the Ramakrishna order of Advaita Vedanta states any single path (Jnana, Raja, Bhakti or Karma) can bring one to God realization if one pursues said path with pure and single-minded devotion.