Afterlife Question: Please Help.

Originally Posted by Winter

The author states that when die, our spirits maintain all of the quirks and habits that we had as humans.

An alcoholic human for example, will still be an alcoholic as a spirit and will wander around its old drinking spots.

The "core" of addiction is the "addictive personality" ...
This is what the author might be referring to ...
A person stops being an alcoholic at the time of their death ...
However, the "addictive personality" remains ...
At the time of incarnation a new body is provided coupled w/the addictive personality ...
The next body may not crave alcohol, it might strongly desire something else or nothing at all ...
If it does have a craving, the addictive personality/body will go in search of whatever will provide relief/stimulation by using it in an obsessive/destructive = addictive manner ...
Addiction can be a "cycle" of addicitons if the core of the addictive personality is not worked with properly to rid/discharge its grip on the person as a whole (mind, body & spirit) ...
For example, an alcoholic can quit drinking, however, a cycle can be created to find another addiction if the core has not been addressed - no rehabilitation work has been initiated to learn to cope w/the craving(s) in a healthy manner ...
The challenge is to eradicate the obsessiveness of the addictive personality ...
It could take more than one lifetime; the first step might be to simply be to learn & be aware of it, the next life might be about controlling it, the following life might be about fixing it & the next full eradication ...
No one knows how many lifetimes it will take to be free of the "addictive personality" ...
As far as an "alcoholic" visiting their old haunts, I believe any spirit including one w/an addictive personality will visit familiar places ...

My late husband still maintains his personality traits including the snarky ones ...
When he was alive he'd line his nostrils w/Mentholatum which always got us to either say yuk-o or move away from him ...
He thought it was hilarious ...
Whenever we're all doing okay & he wants his presence known we'll all smell Mentholatum which of course still causes to have a knee jerk reaction ...
Whenever he wants to soothe us, he'll send each person their favorite scent ...

Hope this helps ...

Edited to add info on cycle ...

[kris]

Originally Posted by Winter

Anyway, the book is pretty accurate, based on everything I have researched on the subject, except for one theme. I have been struggling with this inconsistancy for a while now, and look for more knowledgeable people to help me with this. The author states that when die, our spirits maintain all of the quirks and habits that we had as humans. In other words, we do not transform into more knowledgeable beings as spirits. If we were ignorant and selfish as humans, then we remain ignorant and selfish as spirits, until we further develop ourselves. Where we leave off as humans right up to the point of death, is where we pick things up as spirits. An alcoholic human for example, will still be an alcoholic as a spirit and will wander around its old drinking spots.

I have not read this book, but nothing you relate about the book in your opening post conflicts with reincarnation as I understand it. It seems to me that your assumptions about the nature of "spirit" need to be re-examined, if not questioned. To understand reincarnation, we need to first understand what constitutes our being, what happens at death and how death sets in motion events that lead to rebirth. While men and women engage in love making of their own accord, universe is busy arranging continuation of the karmic trajectories of those who have died resulting in births of new babies.

The problem with this theory in my opinion, is that it is in conflict with the theme of reincarnation, and the veil of forgetfulness. Why would I remain the same as my last human life, as a spirit, when I have lived countless lives? I would be more knowledgeable as a spirit, because I have lived countless lives, and already am familiar with life on the other side. I wouldn't just pick up right where I left of right? We are ignorant as humans because before we are born, our memories are wiped clean and we begin our lives. But upon death, that veil of forgetfulness is lifted.

What exactly is this veil of forgetfulness? Forgetfulness is an ongoing phenomenon. I have forgotten most of the things I have done in my life or have happened to me, but not everything. At any moment, I am sum total of what remains with me or in me. And that includes all my past lives. There is no place in the universe to drop off, deposit even temporarily, what is with me or in me. This is the essential me. I don't think death changes this situation. What we "drop off" or forget in the process of dying is the peripheral stuff and routine skills like how to walk, go potty, get dressed, speech (language skills), etc.

The author also states that there are many kids in the 4th density. Human kids that have died, and remain kids as spirits. I find this also contrary to all the other research I have done on the topic. Why would a kid remain a kid when he has lived numerous lives? It doesn't make sense.

Thoughts?

Kids remain kids till they have chance to grow up.

I am not comfortable with 3d and 4d stuff. I will let New Agers sort that out.

[Dee47]

Hi Michelle,

I am pretty sure I've read that book. I think I quit when I was almost done. Anyway, he says, as you quoted, "the 'newly dead' are thoroughly themselves when they pass." So I am thinking that shedding the personality that we wear on earth and getting to the core of who we really are is a process. I really don't know if I have that right and welcome any comments on what I've said.

[Rah nam]

Originally Posted by Winter

So the non physical earth realm is sort of like the borderlands? The transition stage?

This is the direct quote from the book:

"The newly "dead" are thoroughly themselves when they pass. Their personalities and habits and character, for better or worse, are completely intact. Nothing miraculous happens when they pass."

and also:

"Spirits are not omniscient. They do not get the answers to all the questions that puzzled them back on earth. Many fail to grasp their condition, some refuse to believe the have died"

What you said above makes sense though. I have reached out to the author via email, so I will report back on his take.

Also the so called Veil of Forgetfulness...when does it get lifted? Once we hit the Astral Plane?

the non physical earth plane is simply as the word says, here on earth. Same space just offset in vibration enough so we can not see them, at least most, some can see spirits or ghosts as they are call. A lot could be said and written about the mechanics of this realm, like you see what you belief, and yes, if you are pulled out of your physical life very suddenly, then you might have problems believing that you have passed. Many stay here by choice to be close to their family.
Those controllers of this planet, the dark ones never go to the astral, they incarnate strait from this realm. The same goes for very "young" souls.
The veil is lifted when all the data from the last life is uploaded into the records and we cross over to the astral. All those processes are regulated by the angelic.

[Rah nam]

Originally Posted by kris

I am not comfortable with 3d and 4d stuff. I will let New Agers sort that out.

then you would have to call all Quantum physicists New Agers. They understand there are different levels of existence. Different "Dimensions" or Densities as I prefer to call them. If perhaps could remember where you come from you would understand.

Originally Posted by kris

I have not read this book, but nothing you relate about the book in your opening post conflicts with reincarnation as I understand it.

It contradicts it becuase when we die, the veil of forgetfulness is supposedly lifted, and we gain all of the knowledge we had about God and the otherside. From this higher perspective, we get to review all of our past lives, and determine what areas we need to work on. Now if I am basically the same as I was during my most recent life, then how would I be able to view all of my past lives from an elevated position? The book suggests that we do not automatically turn into more knowledgeable elevated spirits when we die. But of course we will have more knowledge as spirits, because at the very least, we will have knowledge of all of our past lives (something we are unable to remember in human form.

What exactly is this veil of forgetfulness?

Google "veil of forgetfullness.
We are all parts of God. Like pieces of clay, but still clay. God created this "game" or 3rd density illusion in order to experience itself. So all of us must enter this world with our memories wiped clean. Which is why the average person on the street does not know any of this. The average person thinks he is a human being, and that death is real, and thinks money is important. The reason is his memory was wiped clean according to the rules of the game. He does not realize that he is imortal. This veil is lifted when we die.

[Dragonfly1]

Winter.....in your post #5 about some of the newly passed over not accepting that they're dead...this happened with my niece who passed suddenly...she was quite angry that I was speaking of her funeral....she said quite clearly to me.."I'm not dead!" And said I'm not having a funeral...so don't come here!...I live a long way away from the family....she wouldn't accept her death....it must've been a shock for her to witness her funeral....I didn't go as she wished...her and I didn't get alone in life...she had a challenging personality in life....I was later told she had to go to a place of healing to help her with her transition....her mother passed 12months earlier (my sister) and she welcomed home with open arms....

[vespa68]

I just finished reading the afterlife by Barry Eaton which I highly recommend. He also kind of says the same thing that we really dont change that much after we pass. We are not automatically psychic, we have to work on that. However i would say that there are many different levels we go to. An alcoholic would maybe go to an astral plane that is much lower? Maybe a life review does not take place right away. I also read that kids remain kids but maybe just during a certain time. The only thing that could explain this, is the different levels or different astral planes.

[kris]

Originally Posted by Winter

It contradicts it becuase when we die, the veil of forgetfulness is supposedly lifted, and we gain all of the knowledge we had about God and the otherside. From this higher perspective, we get to review all of our past lives, and determine what areas we need to work on. Now if I am basically the same as I was during my most recent life, then how would I be able to view all of my past lives from an elevated position? The book suggests that we do not automatically turn into more knowledgeable elevated spirits when we die. But of course we will have more knowledge as spirits, because at the very least, we will have knowledge of all of our past lives (something we are unable to remember in human form.
Google "veil of forgetfullness.

I would not equate remembering more of our past to knowledge of God. What we remember at any moment is what is most relevant at that moment. What is a memory now is a distraction at some other time and vice versa. Once we die, day to day concerns of living are set aside and stop being distractions. Naturally more of the past surfaces. It is not a good idea to get lost in terminology like veil of forgetfulness. Terminology can become a distraction when we are trying understand.

We are all parts of God. Like pieces of clay, but still clay. God created this "game" or 3rd density illusion in order to experience itself. So all of us must enter this world with our memories wiped clean. Which is why the average person on the street does not know any of this. The average person thinks he is a human being, and that death is real, and thinks money is important. The reason is his memory was wiped clean according to the rules of the game. He does not realize that he is imortal. This veil is lifted when we die.

Illusion is another term to guard against when we are trying to understand mysteries of life. I would not advise anyone to bang his 3d head hard against a 3d door of his home, but that would clarify the nature of illusion. My approach is to set aside God, veil and illusion and then try to make sense of life.

Originally Posted by kris

It is not a good idea to get lost in terminology like veil of forgetfulness. Terminology can become a distraction when we are trying understand.

Quite true ...
Its far too much information to work with ...
It is much easier to gain understanding by getting to the root of the issue by casting terminology aside; its always best to start w/the basics ...
Sometimes, it involves looking up words in a dictionary to clarify the definition from the one we think it to be ...
For example, one word that is most often misued is "wallow" ...
The definition when looked up can either be quite the surprise in that what we thought it meant is not correct at all or it can be quite helpful in facilitating one's learning ...

Now if you really want to get down to examining each word in the term "veil of forgetfulness" ...
A veil can be seen through; the fact that a veil is made of fabric is not necessary to understand the use/intention of the word ...
Forgetfulness is not immediately remembering stored information; memories are not erased ...
Thus we have de ja vu, signs & past life regression ...
For each life time we gain experience; we either advance in some way, perhaps an entire level maybe more or stay on the same level ...

Like most people, I don't remember my birth ...
One person I met who was able to recall her birth & further back to a past life did so w/the aid of regression ...
Hope this helps ~