Science Gains a Soul

So here are the beginnings of a titanic shift... science has generally not been "spiritual" because up till recently the term spiritual has been subjugated to
"belief". One has had to believe in some vague image of a god.. some adherence to a set of complex assumptions.. or some historical dogma that
seemed to exist on a plane of presumptive imagination....

But now there are serious scientist, doctors, professionals from within numerous disciplines, that are beginning to punch through the fog... and they
are doing so while adhering to a fairly tight level of observable integrity...

Here's some of the more profound individuals that I've found so far...

Brian L. Weiss
As a traditional psychotherapist, Dr. Brian Weiss was astonished and skeptical when one of his patients began recalling past-life traumas that
seemed to hold the key to her recurring nightmares and anxiety attacks. His skepticism was eroded, however, when she began to channel messages
from "the space between lives," which contained remarkable revelations about Dr. Weiss's family and his dead son. Using past-life therapy, he was
able to cure the patient and embark on a new, more meaningful phase of his own career.

A graduate of Columbia University and Yale Medical School, Brian L. Weiss M.D. is Chairman Emeritus of Psychiatry at the Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami.

This is one of numerous interviews that he's done:
Brian Weiss - Same Soul, Many Bodies 1/12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etse1QxwumM

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Thomas Campbell
Tom is the "TC (physicist)" described in Bob Monroe's second book Far Journeys and has been a serious explorer of the frontiers of reality, mind,
consciousness, and psychic phenomena since the early 1970s.

Quantum Physics... out of body pro... a super clear thinker... simply superb!

Thomas Campbell - Keynote Speech at The Monroe Institute 1/13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MQMsFEAbj8

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Bruce H. Lipton, PhD is an internationally recognized leader in bridging science and spirit. Stem cell biologist, bestselling author of The Biology of
Belief and recipient of the 2009 Goi Peace Award, he has been a guest speaker on hundreds of TV and radio shows, as well as keynote presenter
for national and international conferences. Dr. Lipton began his scientific career as a cell biologist. He received his Ph.D. Degree from the University
of Virginia at Charlottesville before joining the Department of Anatomy at the University of Wisconsin’s School of Medicine in 1973. Dr. Lipton’s
research on muscular dystrophy, studies employing cloned human stem cells, focused upon the molecular mechanisms controlling cell behavior. An
experimental tissue transplantation technique developed by Dr. Lipton and colleague Dr. Ed Schultz and published in the journal Science was
subsequently employed as a novel form of human genetic engineering.
http://www.brucelipton.com/about-bruce

Bruce Lipton is absolutely Amazing!! Here's a 5 hour+ lecture that he gave a couple of years ago that simply shatters the traditional way that we've
been viewing biology to-date...

The Biology of Belief - Dr. Bruce Lipton pt. 1 - 34
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2oLUF611Y0

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Caroline Myss
After completing her Master's degree, Caroline co-founded Stillpoint Publishing and headed the editorial department, producing an average of
ten books a year in the field of human consciousness and holistic health. Simultaneously Caroline refined her skills as a medical intuitive, with the
assistance of C. Norman Shealy, M.D., Ph.D., a Harvard-trained neurosurgeon.
Caroline developed the field of Energy Anatomy, a science that correlates specific emotional/psychological/physical/spiritual stress patterns with diseases.

Here's a 3 hour+ workshop of her's from 2009:
Caroline Myss - London 2009 1 of 27
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oiz_uPdXgTU

[Seawolf]

Thanks StephenK! It's encouraging to me to learn about new research like this. I think there's a lot to learn about ourselves and the world, and plenty of things in spirituality we can test and learn from. I'm especially interested in learning more about the research of Brian L. Weiss, to see what he thinks about why past life memory occurs and what's in the subconscious.

I'm not quite following this. Science itself is not a "spiritual" discipline, but nothing has ever stopped anyone from interpreting science in religious/spiritual ways or scientists themselves from being religions/spiritual. If you're a scientist, that's not the sum total of everything you are. We have lives outside of what we do for our job. Just felt the need to point that out.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Quintessence

I'm not quite following this. Science itself is not a "spiritual" discipline, but nothing has ever stopped anyone from interpreting science in religious/spiritual ways or scientists themselves from being religions/spiritual. If you're a scientist, that's not the sum total of everything you are. We have lives outside of what we do for our job. Just felt the need to point that out.

I don't think anyone is saying that scientists aren't spiritual, it's just that now scientists are researching things that have traditional been taboo in the scientific community. Meaning, they risk lose credibility by taking something seriously that has been deemed 'spiritual'.

I remain unconvinced that what they are doing qualifies as science. That's not to say it is worthless or wrong (I don't know whether it is or isn't), just that the main rump of the scientific community is not going to accept this as valid science.

I'm not saying it is impossible to build bridges between science and spirituality, just that we need to recognise that they are exactly that: bridges.

Science has to be for everybody, regardless of where they are on their own spiritual journey. We can have science that can be legitimately enforced on people (i.e. we can't have people just going round denying solid science on political or religious grounds), but can we do the same for spirituality? I don't think so. I think it would be a bad idea to even try.

Perhaps I can illustrate the problem:

The opening post appears to talk about communication with dead people in a spirit world. Now let's say for argument's sake that I personally have experience of "being contacted" by something that might have been interpreted as the soul of a dead person. I believe it is possible that real phenomena something like this do happen, but I'm skeptical that they are what they appear to be. In other words, I think there may be some sort of genuine paranormal phenomena occuring but that the people in question are not actually communicating with the souls of dead humans, but with something else which just looks that way.

How does science deal with this? Answer: it has no hope of dealing with it. For a start, the whole thing depends on personal testimony. From a strictly scientific point of view, that's just human behaviour, and it is not reliable evidence of any real phenomena. The person might just be crazy. And even from my own point of view as a believer in the paranormal, it is completely impossible for science to determine whether the source of the phenomena is a human soul or something that just looks that way. That sort of decision comes down to things like intuition, faith, personal experience and all sorts of other non-scientific things.

I don't want to pour cold water over potential progress here. I just think it is misguided to want science to do spirituality. I think the proper and best way forward from this point is some sort of an alliance between science and mysticism, not a merger. People on both sides need to understand there is no need to feel threatened by the other, and that they can learn from each other without trying to create some sort of hybrid between science and spirituality. On the contrary, they should aim to co-operate as partners with the shared aim of trying to make the world a better place, but both concentrate on doing what they do best.

I have read a couple of physics books that argued that if you really want to push the frontier further you need to introduce spiritual interpretations of the otherwise pretty opaque mathematical concepts. Wouldn't surprise me. My favorite quote is from Werner Heisenberg which goes something like that ...In the beginning you look at the full glass as an atheist only to find that God sits there waiting for you at the bottom of the glass.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

I don't think anyone is saying that scientists aren't spiritual, it's just that now scientists are researching things that have traditional been taboo in the scientific community. Meaning, they risk lose credibility by taking something seriously that has been deemed 'spiritual'.

Okay I see what you mean. I've had discussions about this with some of my colleagues; generally you need to build up a reputation before you do anything that might be controversial in your research. You want your tenure first.

At the same time, though, any scientist needs to bear in mind where the line between science and non-science is. If they present something that is non-science as science, that is a violation of basic research ethics. Yup, that's right: science has ethics. Some types of mistakes are more permissible than others, but passing of non-science as science ranks up there with falsifying your data to maintain your research funding. If you're caught, you're career is done. Any scientist who tries to pass off non-science as if it were science deserves to loose their credibility as a scientist.

Or just read UndercoverElephant's post. It's awesome. =P

Originally Posted by Quintessence

Or just read UndercoverElephant's post. It's awesome. =P

Actually no.... science is as much a religion as most traditional religions are...

Science is a belief that is often left blinded by his own hubris... I challenge you to listen all the way through Bruce Liptons lecture... he makes one of
the best cases yet for the dangers of science as it's traditionally been practice in relation to the organic organism.... Modern medicine is now the
number one cause of death in the US... because their science is flawed... because their science is religiously adhered to.. because their science is
the wet dream of big pharma...

Modern biology is built around a mechanical model while physics has shifted to an energetic universe... the drugs that are produced by this
mechanical/chemical approach hardly fair better than the placebo effect.. and in most cases do more damage than good...

The prime assumption that's been made here is that science is on a sound footing... it isn't... and it hasn't been for quite a few years...

That's not to say that spiritualism has very much going for it either... it appears that modern spiritualism is pretty much a post traumatic response
to the western style belief structures.... that any dream will do in the place of verifiable observations... that whatever one wants to believe then
we all need to capitulate so we don't make a particular dreamer, or group of dreamers, uncomfortable...

Oye....

Science needs to revisit it's primary assumptions
and spirituality needs to get a more grounded life

The two can learn from and re-boot each other....

and by all means if you get cancer, diabetes, celiac disorder, depression, gerd or any intestinal disorder, asthma, multiple scleroses.. (pretty much
anything where they start pumping drugs into you without seriously altering the very diet that got you there) you would certainly need to watch out
for the medical preisthood and thecreepy science of the medical community...

Originally Posted by Seawolf

Thanks StephenK! It's encouraging to me to learn about new research like this. I think there's a lot to learn about ourselves and the world, and plenty of things in spirituality we can test and learn from. I'm especially interested in learning more about the research of Brian L. Weiss, to see what he thinks about why past life memory occurs and what's in the subconscious.

You're most welcome Seawolf! :^)

I found several interviews with Brian Weiss and happily enjoyed each of them! He's big on follow-up research and validation when a past life
set-of-circumstances are available to do so! Some of the stories that he shares are pretty dramatic and solid...

Google "Brian Weiss podcasts" if you're wanting to find more.... listening to these the individuals as they talk about their experiences with this stuff is, in
some ways, more enjoyable than reading their books... each interview tends to cover different ground, often centered around the questions and
style of the individual interviewer.. Brian has a lot to say, and he says it very well! :^)

Originally Posted by StephenK

Modern medicine is now the number one cause of death in the US...

*citation needed*

Originally Posted by StephenK

Modern biology is built around a mechanical model while physics has shifted to an energetic universe... the drugs that are produced by this mechanical/chemical approach hardly fair better than the placebo effect..

*citation needed*