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  #281  
Old 14-03-2015, 10:18 PM
Ivy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
I don't think you can call what i was saying belittling. Nor do i take his comment that way either.

Why do you?

Enlightened being a construct of humanity - thus, 'if you don't do it this way, you are not enlightened' being an attempt at belittling according the rules of those seemingly able to judge what enlightenment is or isn't.
  #282  
Old 14-03-2015, 10:22 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquahorse

"Many guru's will yell and scream and act all sorts of ways to get peoples attention."

I have no problem with doing what you need to get people's attention in order to get them to focus or remain on the path that they can to seek, but I don't think posturing serves anyone. I have received my own gifts, I don't feel a need to tell others the level I exist at in order for them to validate my advice. I am always humbled by the privilege of the gifts.

As far as the arguing, I again apologise if this wasn't taking place as sometimes it is very hard to decipher the energy of the conversation without the inflexion of speech.

Thanks again, I truly enjoyed all your statements.

Hi Aquahorse,

My intent was not to proclaim myself but to prove a point. One of many over the course of the thread.

You should start with the discussion over The Work and how someone started talking about what they didn't know anything about.

Then how there is not teacher/student/guru/student relationship. I shared my experience with my guru and was accused of trying to control assert control. The very opposite of what I was saying. Again because someone was saying it was a myth, fake, a delusion.

I can't find my post or I would quote it here where I am saying what if i could help silence your mind. Open chakras, help heal a hurt heart. What if I could really help advance you along the path and it didn't matter what you practiced.

My point and the responses bore out that it doesn't matter what you can do. How you help according to Gem it is all about power.

I am trying to get him to see it is holding him back.

Again, back to me proclaiming myself. I can yell it, take out ads it would not matter. Those meant to learn will come and learn. What I can do is what anyone can do when they go light. I am just trying to spread the light is all.

EDIT: I want to make sure you understand. I am not enlightened. I am not a true guru like Ramana. I have a teacher, friend a guru who has changed my life in ways beyond words. What I can do is what my friends can do. Going light is so important and life changing. If everyone went light the world would be a different place.

I am not saying look at me because I am trying to feed my ego. I am saying talk to me, see if I am real if what I am saying is true. Just give me the chance to ...

From the Gospel of Thomas

24. His disciples said, "Show us the place where you are, for we must seek it."

He said to them, "Anyone here with two ears had better listen! There is light within a person of light, and it shines on the whole world. If it does not shine, it is dark."

33. Jesus said, "What you will hear in your ear, in the other ear proclaim from your rooftops.

After all, no one lights a lamp and puts it under a basket, nor does one put it in a hidden place. Rather, one puts it on a lampstand so that all who come and go will see its light."
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Last edited by jonesboy : 15-03-2015 at 02:00 AM.
  #283  
Old 14-03-2015, 10:24 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivy
Enlightened being a construct of humanity - thus, 'if you don't do it this way, you are not enlightened' being an attempt at belittling according the rules of those seemingly able to judge what enlightenment is or isn't.

What?

Nobody is saying there has to be one way. Where did you get that from

Can you point me to those rules or did you just make them up
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  #284  
Old 14-03-2015, 10:58 PM
Ivy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
What?

Nobody is saying there has to be one way. Where did you get that from

Can you point me to those rules or did you just make them up

Quote:
After I got to the sixth page, I skipped to the end to see at 27 pages it was still continuing badly. I became sad realizing that most here are just as dysfunctional as the rest of the population. Truly enlightened individuals (Christ is a good example) don't need to proclaim the crown.

I was referring to the notion above regarding what 'truly enlightened individuals' do or don't do.
  #285  
Old 14-03-2015, 11:28 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Ahh,

Sorry Ivy. My comment may have been a little much :(

I guess that would be my clue that is time to take my leave of this discussion.

Sorry for any offense, none was intended to all those involved in this lively debate.

Till next time.
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  #286  
Old 15-03-2015, 01:28 AM
Touched Touched is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivy
Are you trying to reference something in the thread in that last statement? If not, what are you on about?

Nonsense, by definition, is that which does not make sense to the discerner, such as myself.

It's simple, really.
  #287  
Old 15-03-2015, 01:45 AM
Kaimi Kaimi is offline
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Personally I do not perceive this in any way bad, those that have come and partook can take something from this. What may be drastically different for each of us.

If you came to sf for enlightened individuals then you may be in the wrong corner of the web, but I don't believe that this topic has been overly horrible just at times more passionate than others.
  #288  
Old 15-03-2015, 04:25 AM
Aquahorse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivy
I was referring to the notion above regarding what 'truly enlightened individuals' do or don't do.

Thanks Ivy, you have proved my point perfectly.
  #289  
Old 15-03-2015, 06:05 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Touched
Gem, those ARE your words.

If I said "Gem is trolling" but then went on to say "I don't accept that you think my words mean 'Gem is trolling'", does that suddenly take away what was said earlier?

You must think we are confused indeed if you think you can so easily manipulate others.

In fact, people are continually positioning each other. This requires objectification of ones self as an individual and of others (painting portraits of self and others). It's not a linear process because objectifying others is the means by which ones self is painted, and it isn't orchestrated by a particular manipulative person who subjugates all the others. It's endemic as power is diffused through everyone and we regulate each other in accordance to the positioning of each other and regulate ourselves because we're scrutinised by everyone else. The social structure and the objectification of individuals is one and the same thing.

The problem this presents is a distinct lack of actual communication and relationship as people operate through the veil of self imagery and we end up with a relationship between images and communications that come from the positions those images hold.

I'm not exempt at all and harbour the images; self image and images of others, but in my case I see through the images, and because I do, there are no longer any positions. Those images in higher positions, the teachers, truth bringers, advisers, those with the answers and spiritual guide etc, and those of lower status, being beginners, newbies, seeker images, and all the images inbetween, are one big objectification of everyone which constructs a narrow and limiting society which in turn is defined the normalcy (called 'spiritual') by which all are subjugated. There's no source to it where someone started it, and we're all complicit in it.

Now I'm saying, you're OK and you don't have to be someone, and be defined by others in this big web of self imagery. It only a hinders free expression and spontaneity, and for no reason at all, because you're not an image in this bizarre system of limited fabrications, and you and me and all all of us are such a great deal more than that.
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  #290  
Old 15-03-2015, 06:28 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Touched
Thank you for posting that Kaere. Yours is a breath of rationality.

Besides the paradoxical nature and ambiguity of Gem's statement, my real question is why post something like that at a spiritual web site? It's like a guy going to a forum about cars and stating "I considered that all cars are poisoning the air" or going to a financial site and posting "I considered that all wealth only impoverishes".

Your example wasn't entirely irrelevant - you are right, words are just words, so why argue them? At the same time, I hope you agree there are limits. Words can be very inflaming, provocative, or threatening, whether or not they are really innocuous, or ignored, but I suppose I should just move on to a more productive subject.

I appreciate your discernment because everything I say and do is highly questionable, often contradictory, overtly radical and has no fundamental basis of validity. The point though, is that I'm not constrained by the scrutiny and not positioned by the assertions not undermined by the attempts to pull me into line and not bowing to the imposition of limiting spiritual conformity. I question all that, and frankly, I find it ludicrous, pretentious and overbearing.
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