How do I break thru to an atheist who wants to find God/spirituality?

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Unless I read it wrong, Yumi's friend is contemplating suicide ....
Doing 'nothing' is not an option if, as I said, her friendship and humanity means anything.

To be honest, neither is calling it the dark knight of the soul and showing him spiritual concepts.

If someone is suicidal, they need help from a medical professional.. imo.

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

When you're in a 'dark place' the last thing you need is feeling nobody cares.

From one who has been there truly, all the care in the world means nothing if it is centered in a place where it does no good. So it is not about caring, it is about showing an attitude that serves the situation. Not wanting someone to commit suicide because you cannot deal with it, simply just add on weight to a situation that is already heavy.

Honestly I do not know the situation (how many of us do?), though it sounds to me like we are dealing with one that wish to find meaning in life rather than leave it. The idea that it can only be found through God and Spirituality is misguided. Neither does it seem to lead anywhere, thus planting more seeds in a garden that is already full seem counterproductive imo. I think it is time to turn over some new rocks to see whether there is something that might give more meaning there. Just a thought...

@Yumi14, I do not think you are trying to push your belief on him. I think you simply are looking for perspective on what to do in order to help one you care about. Listen and share your love, it seem to inspire him (if I have understood things right)... the only question left is just where he can find his own light and meaning. Broaden the search as wide as possible, one never truly know where something is before they have found it. They can look and they can search, but they can never know. They can have an idea, but they truly cannot know until they come upon that which they know. They might then say I knew, but they didn't

Re: OP

If you want some advice from a (happy) atheist, I'd recommend that you not try to convert him to God-belief, since if it hasn't happened already, it's not likely to happen.

I recommend instead to help your friend find happiness within his own worldview. Find out what makes him unhappy, and see if there is a solution that doesn't involve god-belief. Perhaps just listening and being a friend is the most productive thing you can do.

And even better, get that friend some psychological therapy.


eudaimonia,

Mark

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Eudaimonist

Re: OP
If you want some advice from a (happy) atheist, I'd recommend that you not try to convert him to God-belief,
since if it hasn't happened already, it's not likely to happen.

I recommend instead to help your friend find happiness within his own worldview.
Find out what makes him unhappy, and see if there is a solution that doesn't involve god-belief.
Perhaps just listening and being a friend is the most productive thing you can do.

And even better, get that friend some psychological therapy.

Boy, do I love this advice!

Originally Posted by Eudaimonist

Re: OP

If you want some advice from a (happy) atheist, I'd recommend that you not try to convert him to God-belief, since if it hasn't happened already, it's not likely to happen.

I recommend instead to help your friend find happiness within his own worldview. Find out what makes him unhappy, and see if there is a solution that doesn't involve god-belief. Perhaps just listening and being a friend is the most productive thing you can do.

And even better, get that friend some psychological therapy.


eudaimonia,

Mark

His worldview is really what is causing the suicidal feelings. He is awake and fed up with the prison planet and how it is run.

He understands so much of the dynamics of how the world is, he is bright, expressive and not afraid to speak his mind about the issues.

I have suggested to start a blog or a YouTube channel so he can release all of the knowledge and energy and to help people wake up to the illusions happening. He doesn't seem interested in this suggestion. His worldview is a passion. It consumes him. I thought getting it out there with his gift of writing might help him feel like he is helping others. I don't know if my suggestion was right or wrong, but he needs some way of releasing it.

I've suggested he do volunteer work as well, as a way to get his mind off world issues and to help him find some peace that way.

He has gone in for psychological help before and has been talking about going in again. I think this is a good idea for sure.

I just want him to find peace. Whether he gives up on finding God or not, I want him to have peace in his life.

[Dwerg]

Ah, the last barrier. I've never sincerely believed in God myself, but I have an understanding of the spiritual aspects of being human and what God is about. It's indeed more a matter of perspective than truth, yes I'm saying it's a fantasy. I don't think it's necessarily bad, I value fantasy and use it to handle different aspects of my life. It's less energy consuming.

Anyways, I've been there, thought that and felt that. The way he's going won't be easy, he's probably as stubborn as me and needs to learn the hard way. Denying the existence of God, being insanely intelligent and contemplating suicide seems to go hand in hand.

Possible fitting role models: Stephen Hawking, Morgan Freeman, Albert Einstein, Richard Dawkins (although I think he's slightly retarded in fighting religion). These are people who've reached far in life without believing a God, thus proving it's possible.

Other than that he might need to learn flipping things around with logic. Life is pointless (verifying what's already believed), what is the implication of life being ultimately pointless? Freedom is already a fact and there's no pressure anymore, thus life can be enjoyed for the while it lasts in every waking moment. What's more pointless than living life is committing suicide, rationally speaking it's a greater waste. What is it really that makes a person want to kill himself? What is that makes a person continue in life?

If he might as well be dead, why not live as if he already is? He's free to live as he wish, but consequences still apply, those cannot be escaped.

If he's not getting anywhere ask him if he wants to talk to someone who understands his level of thinking, send him my way.

[Emmalevine]

It might be that this guy is suffering from existential depression which is pretty miserable and usually involves a crisis in meaning. If it's meaning he is searching for, he could be encouraged to look for ways to make his own life meaningful. This might nor might not involve God/spirituality. For a lot of people, myself including, one way to create meaning is to literally create. Is he artistic? Academic? What is his dream? Maybe he's lacking in confidence.

I'm not trying to diagnose and agree he needs medical attention, but I wonder if, as a friend, you could ask him what would make life meaningful to him, rather than look for an ultimate meaning. Is there a cause he cares about, or some type of artistic expression. Maybe he needs someone to show the way and take an interest.

Originally Posted by yumi14

His worldview is really what is causing the suicidal feelings.

That may be so, but there is a difference between making additions to his godless worldview and changing it at the root.

I am happy with my atheism. It is possible to be a happy atheist. This probably does require certain realizations that help one to maintain an emotional equilibrium. I don't know precisely what your friend is lacking.

He is awake and fed up with the prison planet and how it is run.

Then start there. It's true that the world isn't a utopia, but that is not a reason to be miserable. There is plenty of happiness to be found even in an imperfect world.

His worldview is a passion. It consumes him.

He may be obsessive-compulsive or have leanings towards paranoid personality disorder. All the more reason for psychological counseling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoi...ality_disorder

I just want him to find peace. Whether he gives up on finding God or not, I want him to have peace in his life.

Of course.


eudaimonia,

Mark