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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #31  
Old 21-03-2011, 09:47 PM
Internal Queries Internal Queries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daisy
That's a completely seperate issue.


.... how so?
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  #32  
Old 21-03-2011, 10:52 PM
Emmalevine Emmalevine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchfork
Thanks again, especially Starbuck and Chrysaetos.


That's a good point.

As for the Bible God, been there, done that, got a T-shirt. The traditional explanations of Bible and God are just wrong in so many ways.


Can you elaborate on that which you have experienced? In a private message, if need be.

Thank you.

Have pmed you.
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  #33  
Old 22-03-2011, 01:38 AM
Ciqala
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchfork
Hi there.

I was wondering today - presuming that our consciousness doesn't die with the physical body - what's wrong with suicide? Why shouldn't I kill myself to finally know for sure what if anything happens afterwards? ;D

All of world's religions have some sort of an opinion. What do you think (or know)?

It is not a gruesome thing when my awareness is very based on oneness and i see the whole picture of life and all the forces entwined, i often desire to "go home" and the idea of sudden natural death, or suicide does not seem horrible at all, i often even become puzzled why people are so afraid to die, yet along with this oneness and wide outlook i have this knowing that i am here to live for specific reasons to be of service and life is beautiful, so beautiful, here on this realm, that i am blessed to be here living in this body.

I don't believe there is anything wrong with suicide, the same as i do not believe there is anything wrong with children or babies who apparently to some, die before their time, i don't believe it's possible for anyone to make a mistake on when there time is, it is just fate, some people just want to return back home.
I believe that when one really tries to die, or are in an accident, they are brought back or saved if it is truly not their time.
I don't believe in the messed up theory that people who commit suicide are destined to suffer for the rest of their afterlife, i don't believe they make a mistake, except for the pain and selfishness caused here on this realm, how they hurt those left behind. People who commit suicide are welcomed by loving hands in the death realm, and they are comforted, and they are home.
Some people make the decision to return back, and their decisions are not judged. They would probably come back to live again, and resume their chapter. I think suicide victims have the fate to die that way.

But for those who just teeter on and off of it, what a waste it would be to throw away something so beautiful.

When it comes down to the weakness in people, their inability to adjust to obstacles, i do not have as much pity, as it is their own fault if their life is unbearable, if that's what it comes down to, i know there are many ways over that obstacle, and i don't pity those who suffer, because suffering is necessary and it makes one strong. A change in perspective is what these people need. For the percentage who use suicide as an excuse for dealing with hardships i would say life gets better, this too shall pass. I used to flirt with suicide in my past, and it was never my time to go, and all i was, was a selfish child who couldn't handle my woe is me dramas of life, and my attempts destructed my family for sure.
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  #34  
Old 22-03-2011, 10:00 AM
pitchfork pitchfork is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciqala
I don't believe there is anything wrong with suicide, the same as i do not believe there is anything wrong with children or babies who apparently to some, die before their time, i don't believe it's possible for anyone to make a mistake on when there time is, it is just fate, some people just want to return back home

I've always had a problem with this concept. It's obvious that people often die in accidents not desiring death at all. And sometimes they are killed my someone else, who excersized his or her free will, without asking whether their victims wanted to "return home".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciqala
But for those who just teeter on and off of it, what a waste it would be to throw away something so beautiful.

It can be beautiful and it can be ugly. In fact, it's both, depending on what we focus at a time. However, it will be "thrown away" eventually anyway. So why do you think it's bad to leave something beautiful earlier than later? Isn't the "home" beautiful too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciqala
I used to flirt with suicide in my past, and it was never my time to go, and all i was, was a selfish child who couldn't handle my woe is me dramas of life, and my attempts destructed my family for sure.

No offence intended, but have you considered that you see other people's motives for suicide same as you own? Maybe you subconsciously see them all as selfish children (cause you were one), but maybe they reason and feel in a very different way.
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  #35  
Old 22-03-2011, 09:00 PM
Felynx
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I've only read the first post, so aside from what anyone else has said, here goes:

I know so much about my life and what comes when I die that the line between being happy with a body and being happy without one has kind of blurred. Most value life because they dont believe there is an afterlife, or that this afterlife is so strange that it wont satisfy them as life did. Truth be told, death isnt as satisfying as life. There is no point in eating or sleeping, though me and my friends do it out of habit, and when we do it isnt satisfactory because we dont have a physical form.

Life is hard. You have to take care of your body and of those who are around you. When things get hard you cant just give up and walk away as if it isnt important. For a long time I thought life was overrated because no matter what Ill be with my family, but I now realize that there is many important things for me to do while Im here.

Though, having a purpose in life cant be said for everyone. I mean- sure everyone has some sort of purpose, but there are others who have especially important work to do while alive that doesnt just involve personal progress. I basically have a duty to remain alive and do my job, or so many things get ruined I cant even imagine the concequences.

Besides my duties, theres lot of complications with me being able to leave my body at this point in my life. Things got screwed up and I need to sort some things out before I can leave my body. Even the smartest, wisest one among my family dont know what will happen if my life ends before it gets fixed. BASICALLY, how this applies to you, who knows if you'll get sent to some sort of purgatory for giving up and killing yourself instead of doing your job. I know that people want to know what its like to die, but dont you have plenty of time for that at the end of your life?
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  #36  
Old 23-03-2011, 12:13 AM
LadyVirgoxoxo LadyVirgoxoxo is offline
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Be patient OP. When your time comes to die you will find out what's on the other side. Suicide not only hurts you but a lot of other people. Suicide is just not the answer to anything.
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“I always like to look on the optimistic side of life, but I am realistic enough to know that life is a complex matter.” Walt Disney
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  #37  
Old 23-03-2011, 01:29 AM
Ciqala
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchfork
I've always had a problem with this concept. It's obvious that people often die in accidents not desiring death at all. And sometimes they are killed my someone else, who excersized his or her free will, without asking whether their victims wanted to "return home".

You should know my views are quite paradoxical and i look at many sides. I guess to explain this view more, it is not about desiring death or making a decision of when to return home, those are human ideas from our outer shells, not our spirits, it is about the plans of destiny which have a play in the lives that are taken, we have free will and we create those plans of our destinies at points, and we have the free will to stray, and we all agree to what our life paths are and even help create the obstacles we endure for learning and growth, and part of the plan we first created may be to experience these "hardships" such as death, or on a wider view, perhaps our death is for a much wider plan to assist in others growth, well, as you may see, i have a much more widened view which is extremely contradicting and paradox of this in my last post, this was only a small piece of all the things i can see. Often when you communicate to these souls, they have realized it was part of the blueprint, and on the other side there is such a wider concept of love and knowing than what we can grasp here, and they do not have a problem with how things happened. There are though, traumatized souls, that are lost and trapped in the earth realm, and they need assistance to be brought to the light.



Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchfork
It can be beautiful and it can be ugly. In fact, it's both, depending on what we focus at a time. However, it will be "thrown away" eventually anyway. So why do you think it's bad to leave something beautiful earlier than later? Isn't the "home" beautiful too?

Exactly, it is both. As i stated before, i do not think there is anything wrong with those who decide to return home, i do not think there is anything wrong with death, suicide, or anything, or those who return earlier than later, i never implied such a thing. In this statement i am looking on another spectrum completely - the beauty of life. Anyone who can see the beauty of life, the beauty of being in service to source, can comprehend what a shame it would be to throw away, and possibly comprehend why it is, we always come back to living on this realm. I know i was not put here against my will, and i sure as hope no one was. My spirit does not see obstacles as punishment. My spirit sees it as an adventure to growing more, and i know i choose to come back to living, in all my past lives, it was my own choice, because despite how people view how horrible life is at times, my higher self does not see it that way.




Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchfork
No offence intended, but have you considered that you see other people's motives for suicide same as you own? Maybe you subconsciously see them all as selfish children (cause you were one), but maybe they reason and feel in a very different way.


Well I have already covered other ways and motives other than my own, and other reasonings for suicide as my view on this is much wider than just this... this is a psychological perspective, it may sound cruel to you, but if people could perceive their obstacles in a positive light and have help over their hurdles and their weaknesses, perhaps there would not be as many suicides due to emotional and psychological issues, and was just one other spectrum i decided to touch on, and it is a big one, which inflicts a lot of mental health patients, in which i have experience with, not just my own. You may not comprehend it, but many people suffering from suicidal tendencies use it as a way to escape because they feel their life is unbearable due to many emotional and psychological reasonings, trauma, upbringings, stress, inability to cope, low self esteem, and the suicide rates are higher as of now due to economy stress, and those who receive the support, stability and mental help are saved and live on to have wonderful lives. And on that subject, there are so many other reasons why suicidal tendencies occur, such as certain medications, toxins in the environment, there are a lot of things, but i touched on the mental side of it all, which can be cured.
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  #38  
Old 23-03-2011, 03:04 PM
Boom
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I'm new to this forum, but I'm going to jump in here with my own thoughts.

The vast majority of people spend all their life on earth (The physical plane) with no knowledge or comprehension of other planes of existence.
We, and animals have a survival instinct, to stay on the physical plane for as long as we can. We are afraid of death, we are afraid of pain. We are held back.
Our physical bodies are equipped with the ability to self repair.

To me that is no accident. For some reason we are supposed to spend as much time as possible on Earth. Pain is an unpleasent sensation that we avoid at all costs. Perhaps thats the reason why we have no real knowledge of what life is like outside the physical plane. Perhaps if it was proven that its as wonderful as people make out it is, then there would be mass suicides.

Therefore, I get the feeling that any suicide would be deemed a bad thing by whatever is next.

From a personal perspective. I have not proven to myself about the existence of alternate planes and an afterlife as yet (that is why I am here). But if what I am reading is accurate, then I would still wish to leave a fulfilled life. It seems that there is plenty of time to be had in other planes and therefore we should embrace our life on earth.
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  #39  
Old 23-03-2011, 03:43 PM
Internal Queries Internal Queries is offline
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some people have a good time, for whatever reasons, manifesting as human on this material plane. other folks, for whatever reasons, are miserable. the world and human existance is not beautiful for them. though human society (based in species survival instinct) makes rules against self determined exit i don't find it wrong, selfish or insane to desire to escape misery.

if someOne is so so unhappy, so in pain, that they're willing to jump off into the unknown in order to escape it's selfish to expect them to remain in misery on your behalf and coerce them with guilt and threats of hell or bad karma.

if suicide weren't so taboo troubled people might not be so secretive about their feelings and plans. if those in anguish felt they could approach the topic with their loved ones without being harrangued with guilt, judged insane and labeled "selfish spoiled children" there would be more space to try to offer alternatives. and even if the anguished one couldn't be healed and convinced to stay at least those being left wouldn't be suddenly and painfully shocked and feeling they "should've known. should've done something."
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  #40  
Old 23-03-2011, 03:53 PM
7he4uthor
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyVirgoxoxo
Be patient OP. When your time comes to die you will find out what's on the other side. Suicide not only hurts you but a lot of other people. Suicide is just not the answer to anything.

i see this as a biased and conditioned statement
i am not qualified to advise anyone in their personal/private path
and hope for the same respect in return.

the coward?
the hero ?

no.

is it cowardly to face death?
is it courageous ?

none of the arguments work when examined free of bias

the samurai
the kamakasi
the lonely

instinct to survive
intelligence to override

some religions/cultures prohibit it
some [in some cases] encourage it

it can bring shame to those who raised [attached to] you
but mostly because of conditioning, not always the truth ...

usually the result of depression [in the west]
but can be a code of honor

theres tooooo much to examine on this
1ve spent enough time here ...
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