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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > General Religion

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  #21  
Old 14-10-2018, 11:12 AM
Busby Busby is offline
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Originally Posted by Baile
In 7-8 years of being here at SF, I have never read a post from anyone claiming they were 100% enlightened. Claiming they are on the enlightenment path, yes. And I have never heard a spiritual teacher speak who claimed they were enlightened.

Please list the many people you have come across, I'd like to read those claims for myself. And I'm not talking about the goofy dime-a-dozen eastern and new-age "enlightened master" sites online. I mean people you yourself have met here or elsewhere.

I have read posts from people who start "Ask Me A Question" threads, claiming they can provide answers to any spiritual question. Now, those make me shake my head in laughing amazement, just like you, sure.

You are right. No, I have not read anything from anyone who has claimed to be 100% enlightened - but plenty who have said something like 'being enlightened' or 'those who are ignorant' and thus giving or wanting to give us on this forum the understanding that there are people who live on higher 'planes'.

My understanding of what enlightenment is, as experienced by those who speak of cosmic consciousness means that the individual human mind (and this is just one example) expands in such a way that the whole meaning of the universe becomes apparent either permanently or is re-callable. There are other reports but all follow the sense of a mind opened and 'stretched' into the business of the universe.

As it is I don't personally think that there are people who can be described as 'ignorant'; each of us is 'right' within his or her own perspective and condition. We are where we are in our personal world and can be thankful if, as a friend of mine experienced, 'the heavens opened up'.

Just as an added thought - I personally don't think this has anything to do with a God as we may well conclude to be the case - but belongs to a natural order of (in its widest sense) nature.
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  #22  
Old 14-10-2018, 12:39 PM
Honza Honza is offline
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My trouble is that I trained my unconscious mind to reject any form of "I AM" in the search for selflessness. Thus my unconscious mind is defiant of any "I" including my own. It is a bit of a trap for me which I have sprung upon myself.
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  #23  
Old 14-10-2018, 01:39 PM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
My trouble is that I trained my unconscious mind to reject any form of "I AM" in the search for selflessness. Thus my unconscious mind is defiant of any "I" including my own. It is a bit of a trap for me which I have sprung upon myself.



What do you mean Honza in selflessness? As in not selfish or Annata (Not self).
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  #24  
Old 14-10-2018, 02:23 PM
Baile Baile is online now
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Nothing should be a struggle. Struggle indicates you are not on the path you need to be. In all honesty, it sounds like you need to accept that this I AM notion is not for you. It is just not your path this lifetime. Instead, embrace the beliefs you feel comfortable and at home with. Renew your relationship to Christian faith maybe, that sounds like your path from the many posts you speak of it.
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  #25  
Old 14-10-2018, 08:21 PM
Honza Honza is offline
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Originally Posted by sky123
What do you mean Honza in selflessness? As in not selfish or Annata (Not self).

As in not selfish.....
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  #26  
Old 14-10-2018, 08:24 PM
Honza Honza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baile
Nothing should be a struggle. Struggle indicates you are not on the path you need to be. In all honesty, it sounds like you need to accept that this I AM notion is not for you. It is just not your path this lifetime. Instead, embrace the beliefs you feel comfortable and at home with. Renew your relationship to Christian faith maybe, that sounds like your path from the many posts you speak of it.

I AM is difficult to avoid. I pushed myself so far in one direction so that the only choice I have now is to accept I AM.

I think you are generalising when you say "nothing should be a struggle"....My whole life has been a struggle. So what is new?
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  #27  
Old 15-10-2018, 12:30 AM
Baile Baile is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
I think you are generalising when you say "nothing should be a struggle".
When my life has been a struggle, I've always taken that as a signal to change my life. I have walked out of dysfunctional relationships, packed my car and driven off when it felt necessary, moved 3000 miles away and started my life all over. I have never allowed life to become an unhappy struggle for too long, I have always taken the necessary steps to change it into something better and more positive. So no, I am not generalizing. I am speaking from my experience.

Others will choose to do what they choose of course. Generally though, I would say the reason people spend years struggling -- staying in unhappy relationships is very common -- is because people tend to fear change, fear uncertainty, fear insecurity. I have never really feared change much. I would choose to be alone in a new place with little money, than stay with a partner I don't like just so I'm not alone, or stay in a job I can't stand just for the paycheck.
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  #28  
Old 15-10-2018, 01:17 AM
Baile Baile is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
I AM is difficult to avoid. I pushed myself so far in one direction so that the only choice I have now is to accept I AM.
Changing one's beliefs is much harder than changing jobs. Beliefs and patterns of thinking have been ingrained for decades. But it helps to recognize what I call examples of "negative prayer". You just made two arbitrary, negative statements, and claimed them as truth. And by doing that, you invited both statements to become your truth and belief-reality.

More than that though, these statements have no basis in any actual reality. Where is this I AM that is so difficult? Show me a example of I AM in the world. Point it out to me, tell me where it lives and resides. You can't, because I AM doesn't exist. It is nothing more than an abstract concept born of the intellect.

"Alcohol is difficult to avoid" is a real statement about a real issue. It's still a negative prayer statement, but at least you can work to change your outlook because there is something real and authentic to work with. The double problem with your comments, is you are projecting negative thoughts about something that is not in fact real. The issue doesn't exist, other than in your mind. In other words, there is nothing difficult about it, at all. Rather, the difficulty (the work) is in changing the way you process abstract concepts such as this.
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  #29  
Old 15-10-2018, 01:55 AM
Baile Baile is online now
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One more thing: many beliefs cannot be "proven". I can't tell you who or what Jesus is, or where he resides, for example. The difference is that healthy, constructive beliefs don't need to be analyzed and challenged. If one's beliefs are positive and life-affirming, that is all that matters.

Whereas negative beliefs and thoughts that create illness, confusion and chaos, do need to be challenged. And eradicated. There is no logical reason to continue to hold onto unprovable ideas and belief-tenets that do nothing other than create illness and chaos in one's life. To continue to freely choose to embrace concepts, beliefs and patterns of thinking that are damaging to one's health and life, is willful self-abuse at best and schizophrenia at worst.
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  #30  
Old 15-10-2018, 02:25 AM
hallow hallow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baile
One more thing: many beliefs cannot be "proven". I can't tell you who or what Jesus is, or where he resides, for example. The difference is that healthy, constructive beliefs don't need to be analyzed and challenged. If one's beliefs are positive and life-affirming, that is all that matters.

Whereas negative beliefs and thoughts that create illness, confusion and chaos, do need to be challenged. And eradicated. There is no logical reason to continue to hold onto unprovable ideas and belief-tenets that do nothing other than create illness and chaos in one's life. To continue to freely choose to embrace concepts, beliefs and patterns of thinking that are damaging to one's health and life, is willful self-abuse at best and schizophrenia at worst.
I don't see anything wrong a little challenge, it makes people think about what there really doing or believing. Like do you believe something just because someone wants you too. Or do you believe in something from the heart? There's a good chance if you believe something just because of a fad or because someone tells you too. Your not going to be ready for the challenge or question. True, beliefs cannot be proven. But if you can defend your beliefs that's proof enough they exist for you
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