My Genes Made Me Do It!

[Snow Goose]

Originally Posted by linen53

One more thing came to mind regarding your breast cancer gene Snow Goose. And I think it needs to be added.

I've known people who struggle with, for example, finances most of their lives. One conflict after another. The car breaks down, the refrigerator goes on the fritz, the daughter breaks her arm. But then their finances improves. What happens? Their health declines.

No matter what we do to take the roadblocks out of our path, new ones will be added later down the road. Because we will learn what we came to learn.

Agree again Deb :-)

[organic born]

Originally Posted by baro-san

If you believe there's nothing, and lived accordingly, you will have an unpleasant surprise if you find there is something. At best, you wasted a life.

If you believe there's something, even if there's nothing, you won't be surprised, and won't be caught unprepared.

Silver covered this rather nicely! :)

Let me add:

It's been my long study of belief systems that have lead me to this conclusion. The "nothing" part does not leave one with an empty head, nor is ones ability to discern between thoughts and belief structures impaired. If I want to believe in something I'm free to do so, while I'm cleanly able to disassociate from those beliefs when they feel no longer relevant.

I've been out of body several times and lucid dream on a fairly regular basis so I suspect that my surprises when I pass will be mitigated by this experience. As an interesting twist, if one does "believe" in mentally created assumptions, about how things may appear to be, then the confusion will be "more" pronounced when we pass in an effort to rectify the differences. If instead I'm moving freely, without a whole-lot of mental distractions, then when I pass I'll likely adjust with the same flexibility that I nurture while physical. :)

[organic born]

Originally Posted by linen53

baro-san, in my opinion, no belief system is wasted. It all accumulates, i.e., builds on itself.

Which is both helpful and complicated at the same time. Deriving conclusions should be experienced as more of an art-form than as a means for establishing facts. We draw with our thoughts a version of reality which, ideally, should be forever in flux. :)

[linen53]

How can we know any solid concrete facts? There are none! It's all speculation gathered from ours and other's experiences. But there is no proof of anything which, actually, I think is kind of sexy. It keeps the suspense suspenseful.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by linen53

How can we know any solid concrete facts? There are none! It's all speculation gathered from ours and other's experiences. But there is no proof of anything which, actually, I think is kind of sexy. It keeps the suspense suspenseful.

The one thing you have going for you is age! In my casual study of Zen Buddhism there's an assertion that our more fuller appreciation of life doesn't really come into focus until we cross into our 50's. At this point we've lived long enough that our brains will have developed such a vast collection of neural connections that patterns of overlapping associations become increasingly obvious. So much so that we are able to eventually release our hold on static belief structures and begin relying more on our hard-earned experience of complex interactions.

Zen insists that this is a real thing.. that maturity and wisdom is directly a result of a life that's well experienced and thoughtfully considered. It also has to do with the structural manor in which our brains become seasoned as a biological processor.

So for us spiritualist we can thus celebrate ageing for the potential insight that comes with it. This is why it's critically important that we pay close attention to the biological health of our primary asset. Thought's that are nurtured loosely tend to align much better with other thoughts that are considered loosely. And how we're feeding our bodies is an equally important aspect for us to remain cautiously aware of. We want to align with our evolutionary heritage instead of eating the chemicalized and overly-processed stuff that we're calling food today.

Age, in itself, is no guarantee that wisdom will follow, but if wisdom is nurtured by years of a broad spectrum of interests and efforts then the path should be laid for a more insightful and Zen-like experience! :)

a case of nature verses nurture. nurture wins over nature with behavioral gene patterns. at least that is what i was told. and will be finding out as my twins become adults.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by organic born

The one thing you have going for you is age! In my casual study of Zen Buddhism there's an assertion that our more fuller appreciation of life doesn't really come into focus until we cross into our 50's. At this point we've lived long enough that our brains will have developed such a vast collection of neural connections that patterns of overlapping associations become increasingly obvious. So much so that we are able to eventually release our hold on static belief structures and begin relying more on our hard-earned experience of complex interactions.

Zen insists that this is a real thing.. that maturity and wisdom is directly a result of a life that's well experienced and thoughtfully considered. It also has to do with the structural manor in which our brains become seasoned as a biological processor.

So for us spiritualist we can thus celebrate ageing for the potential insight that comes with it. This is why it's critically important that we pay close attention to the biological health of our primary asset. Thought's that are nurtured loosely tend to align much better with other thoughts that are considered loosely. And how we're feeding our bodies is an equally important aspect for us to remain cautiously aware of. We want to align with our evolutionary heritage instead of eating the chemicalized and overly-processed stuff that we're calling food today.

Age, in itself, is no guarantee that wisdom will follow, but if wisdom is nurtured by years of a broad spectrum of interests and efforts then the path should be laid for a more insightful and Zen-like experience! :)

It's been a while since I gained interest in Buddhism and Zen - and have read a few books about them. I was hoping you could tell me, if you recall the sources of this Zen business of age being a big plus. I try not to buy anymore books after donating the ones I haven't read for a long time, but I'll allow myself Buddhism/Zen books. Thanks in advance.

[baro-san]

Originally Posted by baro-san

We can chose to think there is something after this life, or that there is nothing, then live accordingly.

If you believe there's nothing, and lived accordingly, you will have an unpleasant surprise if you find there is something. At best, you wasted a life.

If you believe there's something, even if there's nothing, you won't be surprised, and won't be caught unprepared.

Originally Posted by Silver

baro-san said, "
... I don't think that's what anyone here is saying that they don't believe there is anything after physical demise - it's simply saying in all honesty that they don't know. And more importantly, that they're leaving it open, to see what happens without making any judgment calls on it.

I only speak for myself now: I think your way of thinking puts people in danger of psychologically and emotionally hamstringing themselves, because they're letting others' opinions put them over a barrel and not giving themselves the responsibility for ferreting out their own answers and explanations for stuff.

Originally Posted by organic born

Silver covered this rather nicely! :)

Let me add:

It's been my long study of belief systems that have lead me to this conclusion. The "nothing" part does not leave one with an empty head, nor is ones ability to discern between thoughts and belief structures impaired. If I want to believe in something I'm free to do so, while I'm cleanly able to disassociate from those beliefs when they feel no longer relevant.

I've been out of body several times and lucid dream on a fairly regular basis so I suspect that my surprises when I pass will be mitigated by this experience. As an interesting twist, if one does "believe" in mentally created assumptions, about how things may appear to be, then the confusion will be "more" pronounced when we pass in an effort to rectify the differences. If instead I'm moving freely, without a whole-lot of mental distractions, then when I pass I'll likely adjust with the same flexibility that I nurture while physical. :)

It seems that neither of you got what I tried to say, so either I didn't express myself clearly enough, or we're on so different wavelengths that we can't communicate effectively.

I definitely disagree with your interpretations both of my post, and of the subject in discussion, but I'll leave it as is. I notice that you both seem to be convinced you're right, with no shadow of a doubt. That's a recipe for disappointment.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by baro-san

It seems that neither of you got what I tried to say, so either I didn't express myself clearly enough, or we're on so different wavelengths that we can't communicate effectively.

I definitely disagree with your interpretations both of my post, and of the subject in discussion, but I'll leave it as is. I notice that you both seem to be convinced you're right, with no shadow of a doubt. That's a recipe for disappointment.

I can only hope that I understood what you were trying to say...all you can do right now is try again, or let it be.

It wouldn't be fair though, if you didn't try to re-do your post so that we may try again ourselves to respond based on a better understanding of what you were trying to say. You seem to have things all sewn up yourself, what with your prejudgment saying, "I notice that you both seem to be convinced you're right, with no shadow of a doubt. That's a recipe for disappointment."
How can we be opinionated if there's no thing to be opinionated about (because we're in a wait and see position).

[linen53]

Originally Posted by organic born

The one thing you have going for you is age! In my casual study of Zen Buddhism there's an assertion that our more fuller appreciation of life doesn't really come into focus until we cross into our 50's. At this point we've lived long enough that our brains will have developed such a vast collection of neural connections that patterns of overlapping associations become increasingly obvious. So much so that we are able to eventually release our hold on static belief structures and begin relying more on our hard-earned experience of complex interactions.

Zen insists that this is a real thing.. that maturity and wisdom is directly a result of a life that's well experienced and thoughtfully considered. It also has to do with the structural manor in which our brains become seasoned as a biological processor.

So for us spiritualist we can thus celebrate ageing for the potential insight that comes with it. This is why it's critically important that we pay close attention to the biological health of our primary asset. Thought's that are nurtured loosely tend to align much better with other thoughts that are considered loosely. And how we're feeding our bodies is an equally important aspect for us to remain cautiously aware of. We want to align with our evolutionary heritage instead of eating the chemicalized and overly-processed stuff that we're calling food today.

Age, in itself, is no guarantee that wisdom will follow, but if wisdom is nurtured by years of a broad spectrum of interests and efforts then the path should be laid for a more insightful and Zen-like experience! :)

I have to laugh organic. Seems I've been forced into a diet of unprocessed foods by developing a life threatening reaction to eating certain foods. So my eating habits have been cleaned up. I call myself The Reluctant Celiac.

I'd say things came together for me around 4-5 years ago. I'm a slow learner. But also I suffered brain damage around that time that changed the wiring in my brain. Pieces of the puzzle just starting falling into place. Things that used to confuse me no longer did. The mechanisms and the reasons.

This lifetime has been a culmination of many lifetimes whereas I couldn't seem to get past a certain point. I was seemingly, at a standstill. I arranged this lifetime to "knock my socks off" and that's exactly what happened (yes, I have memories of my life just before I began this incarnation).

Now all those bits and pieces make sense. In the United States, we don't revere our elderly. It's sad, really, because there is so much wisdom there. But it's a young soul's world now and they are running the show. It is what it is, I have no hostility or regrets.

In the meantime, I'll keep eating my non-processed foods and putting one foot in front of the other. Eyes on the road.

I really enjoyed this post and all the Zen things you said. It's nice hearing it from a different perspective.