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  #21  
Old 19-07-2018, 11:05 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baile
Thank you. My compassion has been expanding since I started putting food out for the animals. I feel so much love and compassion for these creatures. The beautiful birds that come to eat! I put apples out for the deer in the back, and we have staring contests from a distance, but they don't run off! And the sweetest porcupine comes up on the deck every night for its seeds, my heart melts for that creature, so cute, so innocent, I have come close to tears a couple times watching it eat.

I typed all that and then realized I said "love" for animals. Interesting...



Some will testify that their pets are their best friends and get on better with animals than humans and I will say the same in regards to those from other planes .

There is obviously something energetic behind the scenes playing out in these instances and it refers to awareness of themselves and their nature / mindsets .

When you have everyone entertaining a similar nature and mindset there is a collective love / understanding / awareness .

When you have as many differences as their are individuals all inhabiting the same environment then sparks will fly .

To have the same love for the one that inflicts suffering and for the one that suffers is near on impossible in this worldly environment .

And sure we have the jesus thing where he say's "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." this is not the same as loving the one that murders your wife or child the same .

I suppose Love is one of things that will be talked about forevermore and unconditional Love will present even more debates lol ...

What I was trying to get at is how peeps react to what is observed when there is suffering had by the hand of another .

If you see love in all and in everything then there would not be the initial responce to help or save one from suffering .

There would be no judgement at all as all is love .

This is why I say that the world of duality will always contain a dual reflected judgement / action .

I don't suppose there would be anyone that would sit idly by and let someone suffer, guru types included unless there was a weird reason for why .

The heart of it all is why one would respond to stop suffering when there is only love in play and there is the same love for all .

In this scenario one would always be neutral and yet put into certain situations I would say it's near impossible to be .

One doesn't remain neutral because one has a moral compass and a conscience and one lives by them . (most of the time)



x daz x
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  #22  
Old 19-07-2018, 12:07 PM
peteyzen peteyzen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
When you witness others suffering by the hands of others one can understand the values behind experiencing suffering but what does one do in the immediate?

Stand idly by and do nothing?

What would you do if there was a child being abused right in front of your eyes?

When you say you can move on from the hurt that is felt by such actions what does that mean or suggest the next time a similar situation comes your way .

Are you to standby and do nothing to protect the child from abuse .

What does this love for everyone mean at the end of the day?

What I propose is that one cannot move on from what one feels in regards to sufferings experienced and observed .

Peeps can forgive peeps for a manner of all things and forgiveness is an expression of love but in the immediate one acts upon what is morally right or wrong ..

I suggest that there are no lovers of everyone that stands by and watches sufferings idly .

Can you explain what you mean about moving on in these instances?


x daz x
Hi Daz,
I think you misunderstood my point, its ok, it wasn`t obvious. I meant that when someone hurts us, personally, We should ask ourselves `What part of me has been hurt`? If someone upsets us or talks about us behind our backs, or judges us, what part of ourself is it that feels this hurt? When we truly examine it, the thing that is hurt, is our ego, the sense of self. Realising this and understanding that this isn`t the real `you` it is just a perception of self we have all created that `feels` the hurt, allows us to realise that in reality, there is no `thing` there to be hurt. Thus by disassociating from the human ego , we can start to experience less suffering.
regards
Pete
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  #23  
Old 19-07-2018, 01:15 PM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteyzen
Hi Daz,
I think you misunderstood my point, its ok, it wasn`t obvious. I meant that when someone hurts us, personally, We should ask ourselves `What part of me has been hurt`? If someone upsets us or talks about us behind our backs, or judges us, what part of ourself is it that feels this hurt? When we truly examine it, the thing that is hurt, is our ego, the sense of self. Realising this and understanding that this isn`t the real `you` it is just a perception of self we have all created that `feels` the hurt, allows us to realise that in reality, there is no `thing` there to be hurt. Thus by disassociating from the human ego , we can start to experience less suffering.
regards
Pete

Ah I see Pete, haha .. thanks for clarifying . I thought you just carried on with where I left off regarding peeps who supposedly love everyone ..

I agree it's a worthy exercise enquiring into what part of you that has been hurt .

I think if you somehow dissociate what part of you has been hurt from what you are then the suffering would likely not effect you in the same way as before .

I wonder though how attainable doing that is for some it's likened to peeps suggesting don't worry be happy, well it's much easier said than done .

Another aspect of it is that the ego or a sense of self is very much part of you and to disassociate a part of that is perhaps at times just burying your head in the sand .

For some who have a strong healthy sense of self could feel initially feel hurt but then brush it off as something lacking in them rather than you .

This way one doesn't have to disassociate the pain felt ..

I think there are many ways to look and deal with suffering .

One more thing about the sense of self or the ego in regards to what part of you feels hurt is equally measured in reflection of which part loves another for one can equally suffer and love from the heart .

The heart that obviously is not normally associated with the ego but our sense of self has to recognise that which we love and that is only possible to do so via the ego .. ..

Perhaps as many would say all the mind is ego, everything we love is via the ego to some degree .

It's the same scenario as the truth thread .. at the end of the day it's all personal / relative .



x daz x
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  #24  
Old 19-07-2018, 03:24 PM
linen53 linen53 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Does that sound good?
Does to me!!!

Got any helpful insights or hints as to how to forgive even the worst hurts and slights?
Ha, and then move right on into Love, Kindness, Compassion and Understanding?

This is the place!

I was told once we only have to overcome what's in our own back yards. Nothing more. That was a profound statement to me. It helped me focus on just me and what I'd been through. And eventually heal.
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  #25  
Old 19-07-2018, 04:17 PM
Starman Starman is offline
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Often a person has emotional pain because they are holding on to something, and finding out what we are holding onto in regards to our pain can go a long ways towards emotional healing. For some they may be holding on to wanting to be acknowledged, or they may want justice or revenge against those they feel caused the pain

The pain is usually caused by some type of reciprocity that is sought but not yet received. For me, I wanted to be loved by my family of origin, my mother and siblings; I wanted them to acknowledge how they hurt me, but now most of those family members have died and I never got that acknowledgement.

I carried emotional pain around with me for decades while they were alive, and held out hope of amending our relationship, but now I realize that it was that hope and desires I had for what I wanted them to do that kept me in pain for so long. Children have “magical” relationships with their parents, we expect things from them that we would not expect from others, and we look up to family in ways that we may not view others.

Some transfer that “magical” perspective to a spouse or lover; its like living in an enchanted dream, and when the bubble bursts, be it our immediate family, a lover, etc., great pain and disillusionment often follows. I don’t have any expectations of those who hurt me as a child because those people are now dead. However, sometimes death is not enough, long after the perpetrator has died many still seek some kind of retribution.

I remember as a therapist working with a woman who had been raped, and the guy who raped her was out of jail on bail. This woman was in a lot of pain and she was, rightfully, extremely angry with this guy. She could not wait for the trial so she could confront him, but the guy committed suicide and died before the trial. This really enraged the woman who had been raped. She felt like he got away with something and it made her hurt even more.

What do you want to gain from your pain? Why is the pain there and what do you think it is asking of you? I had to explore my pain before I was able to let go of it, and allow healing to take place.
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  #26  
Old 19-07-2018, 04:57 PM
linen53 linen53 is offline
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Starman, for decades I thought forgiving my abusers would be somehow abandoning me. So I concentrated on forgiving myself. Once I was healed and balanced it was easy peasy to forgive the others.
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  #27  
Old 19-07-2018, 05:00 PM
Starman Starman is offline
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Oh, I agree Deb! We forgive for our own sake and not for the sake of others.
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  #28  
Old 19-07-2018, 06:39 PM
Tomma Tomma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baile
Thank you. My compassion has been expanding since I started putting food out for the animals. I feel so much love and compassion for these creatures. The beautiful birds that come to eat! I put apples out for the deer in the back, and we have staring contests from a distance, but they don't run off! And the sweetest porcupine comes up on the deck every night for its seeds, my heart melts for that creature, so cute, so innocent, I have come close to tears a couple times watching it eat.

I typed all that and then realized I said "love" for animals. Interesting...

Oh bless you! I'm doing the same and feel the same. It's so easy to love them isn't it. It's much harder to love humans even though animals are also cruel to each other. Why is that I wonder?
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  #29  
Old 19-07-2018, 07:39 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Does that sound good?
Does to me!!!

Got any helpful insights or hints as to how to forgive even the worst hurts and slights?
Ha, and then move right on into Love, Kindness, Compassion and Understanding?

This is the place!
What a great set of 'responses'! What a great set of people!!!!

Some things came to mind, which may or may not be on target in terms of the Q (i.e. how to 'forgive') that you raised, Miss H:

(1) Finding love and happiness, i.e. discovering ways to get to and then actually getting to a place/state where you are loving and happy makes 'forgiveness' unnecessary, to the point of being 'beside the point' Same 'logic' as a 'rich' man or woman not 'needing' to collect 'owed' 'debts'.

Of course re-member-ing i.e. re-living past 'hurts' (i.e. 'debts') may reactivate such 'needs' even when one is whole/rich, the 'cure' then is to re-member that one is really (now) whole/rich.


(2) The analogy of how dogs/cats/other animal that have been mistreated/abused 'recover' if and when they are 'rescued' by way of being adopted/befriended by loving/reliable/trustworthy 'hosts' may also pertain, as will the fact that such animals generally may be 'susceptible' to being emotionally 'triggered', in terms of remembering/reliving their 'wounded' state if and when they encounter a 'scary person' stimulus - their 'innocence' (naivete) may be forever 'gone' in such regards.

The world is full of unreliable/untrustworthy/not truly loving of others people, so one needs to 'take care of oneself' by learning to recognize and not trust/rely on such people and only 'open' oneself to 'letting one's guard down' with people who they scope out as being reliable/trustworthy/loving folks.

It becomes easier and easier to have 'compassion', 'understanding', 'kindness' etc. from a 'place' of richness/wholeness/happiness. One may then be able to 'identify' with (like actors who get 'into' playing villainous 'roles') and so 'love' others despite what may be thought of as their 'evil' motives. But this takes the kind of detachment that comes from 'seeing' everything that goes on in this world as just being a 'play' or a 'movie' - and so is not suitable for anyone who is deeply engaged with wanting, ikn a feeling way, the 'world' to be a 'better' place, one without so much 'hurt'/'betrayal' etc.

'Seeing' the hurt/betrayal etc as actually (really) serving to stimulate positive soul-growth as clearly evident in the case of the folks who have shared details pertaining to their souls' journeys - that is, 'seeing' hurt/betrayal etc. it as actually being good for Life (in the case of those who 'rise' to the 'challenge', that is) can also be helpful. The issue of 'forgiveness' then becomes functionally moot as well.

It takes a 'tough' kind of personality configuration to 'relish' the fact that Spirit ultimately not only 'survives' but ultimately 'grows' stronger and becomes more adept as a result of experiencing relationship-related mishaps and hardships though. In your case, assuming you still have some degree of 'need' in this regard sweet and vulnerable-sounding Miss H, I would suggest the path of finding and then personally associating with reliable/trustworthy/loving souls as you are doing here - just maybe more personally/intimately so.

I'm a rough and tumble kind of fella as you probably have realized from my posts, but I can be quite reliable/trustworthy/loving in relation to as well very much enjoy relating to high moral/spiritual quality folks such as yourself - so, if you wish the explore possibilities, you are welcome to PM me. I have had and continue to have several very salutary (for myself as well!) video/phone relationships in this regard.

I think there are others here (who have 'shared' in this thread) who could/would also serve and welcome engaging in the same process/purpose. It certainly wouldn't hurt for you to pick one or two to experiment with along these lines. It is most important, if you choose to do so, that you pick out the one(s) you 'sense' have the best chance of being healing/wholesome and life-celebratory for you.

If any or all of the above is not relevant to your personal situation/condition, please forgive my inappropriate in that case presumptiveness and just relate to what I have said as an intellectual exercise stemming from the OP.

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  #30  
Old 19-07-2018, 11:29 PM
Emm Emm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomma
Oh bless you! I'm doing the same and feel the same. It's so easy to love them isn't it. It's much harder to love humans even though animals are also cruel to each other. Why is that I wonder?
Interesting question. Maybe the word love should be changed to "connection"?

Looking into spirituality there is the consciousness connection "We are all One" concept. Are we simply disconnecting from those who we feel have injured our sense of self? And is it that disconnection that we ourselves implement the real issue, never mind the cause?

That "disconnect" seems to go against the grain of our true spiritual nature...which I guess we feel as pain.
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