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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #1  
Old 26-11-2017, 05:56 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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I am NOT That

Namaste and greetings to all.

With this post, I'll shall be taking leave from SF for a while...it may be days, weeks or months. I haven't decided yet.

I have reached a stalemate in regards to what can only be said and what can be directly experienced.

Has it become indeed possible, that by just uttering three magic words "I am that" and poof! bingo! presto! one has attained Brahman? The universal consciousness? realised Satchidananda? experienced the bliss that knows no limit? Achieved Samadhi on the spot without having to even do any sadhana? without even going through Patanjali's 7 limbs before jumping directly to the eighth one?

Then, whenever it gets mentioned, it's like "all that doesn't matter because I am that anyway so I don't need to do anything whatsoever".

So, they can still have their ego, still have their desires, their attachments, still have their anger and hatred, still sit in judgment over others...be like they were before they said "I am that" but saying it makes ALL the difference, because guess what, they are THAT now.

Meanwhile, for the limited few of us, who have spent countless hours in meditation, practicing kriyas, pranayama, dharana, worship...raising their kundalini to actually experience a unifying transcendental state for themselves, can only sit and wonder...my god! if it were only that easy to obtain samadhi and experientially realise the true nature of the atman beyond words, why oh why didn't the saints and sages of old say that to us in the FIRST place? It would have saved us all the trouble...who even knew that by just uttering those three words, one could transcend all material attachments, desires, experience cosmic consciousness? Well I'll be blowed.

Then the funny thing is that others will say "oh, that's because you haven't realised you are THAT yet"...gimme a break.

So, knowing that they won't, I've decided to impose one upon myself. I wish you all the best.

Iti Shivam
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  #2  
Old 26-11-2017, 07:30 AM
Joe Mc Joe Mc is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,735
 
I know that i've had experiences of one pointedness, the latest being whilst walking in a forest feeling annoyed with someone and a bit angry. I started to use a mantra and with a short space of time I temporally at least moved into a very aware and expansive state. Problem was is i'd been watching a few NA vids on youtube and the thought came to me, oh this is what they are talking about ? But actually I had to work and use that mantra to collect myself and transcend the woundedness I was experiencing. So it was a spontaneous arising but perhaps NAs might say well then what you experienced was not awakening etc. ..

Anyway sorry to hear your leaving this forum, hope it isn't for too long. You sound like you have alot to say and you say it very well. I might follow you soon and invest my time and energy elsewhere. Best of luck. Joe
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  #3  
Old 27-11-2017, 05:01 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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My love.

One may become just as complacent and satisfied within a superficial awareness as the other does within their own experiential realisation. They may understand there's 'nothing more' and yet, try to convince others of this position in retrospect. They think "okay, I have understood/felt this, so what am I supposed to DO with it now"? instead of letting the realisation express itself through its own volition without any help from the ego. That is the true nature of Karma Yoga.

I noticed you posted the Oroborous in another thread and yes, the snake may swallow its tail until there is no more snake...or the tail may keep on growing proportionately to the amount swallowed and so, the snake will forever go round in circles, only thinking it is swallowing its own tail, but all it is doing is going around in circles. Resting in the self, means bringing the experienced awareness into the conscious, egoic domain and then nirvikalpa samadhi becomes the sahaja samadhi. Until that is attained, the only battles you will be fighting will be against yourself.

However, fear not for you are not the only one who knows...who can see what is happening from your position as a Vedic scholar, a Tantrika and one who has had the direct experience of Brahman (although your ego keeps fighting it and pretending you haven't had the experience).

I know how much you admire and respect David Frawley so here we are:

https://www.vedanet.com/misconceptions-about-advaita/

Here is also another article which may back you up and help to explain the situation first hand:

https://liveanddare.com/neo-advaita/

In fact, almost 1 billion Hindus would also be with you on this, but why should any of that matter? Like you said before...there is NO Advaita, Traditional, Contemporary or otherwise. Advaita does not exist and neither does Dvaita exist. You do not exist, others do not exist, so wherefore is the 'connection' the 'understanding'? and if you see a self-professed Advaitin acting contrary to their own words and their own teachings they have also professed to have mastered, you can always take solace from the words of Master Jesus Christ; "By their fruits, ye shall know them".

So, I have just given links to an exposition on the many differences between Classical Advaita Vedanta and Contemporary Western Advaitic thought also for the benefit of Iamit, because he asked for this, but seeing as how it did not appear in a thread of his own creation, I wonder if he will respond?

Meanwhile, take a break from SF...you are always saying to others to get out of their heads and into their hearts...but if SF is keeping you "in your OWN head", what good is that? - Sincerely, Shivani's "Higher Self".
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  #4  
Old 30-11-2017, 08:50 PM
HereAndNow HereAndNow is offline
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Self-deception about one's achievements and attainments seems to be more or less a rule among spiritual seekers nowadays. Especially among western people - everyone being so desperately focussed on success and on results and on outer imago. And why's that - why is self-deception so common? At least partly because no-one has proper teachers who can validate and who can see with more clarity what someone is and what someone isn't. So what to do ... if someone wants to honestly get somewhere real with his/her life and spiritual practice? I'd think for most people the only option is to find a teacher/guru ... a live teacher ... and then to follow him/her, and let him/her to be a mirror who can show us who we are and who we are not. And all these other people who think they are already enlightened, self-realised etc? Let them be then, it's an extra challenge ... the "spiritual scene" being what it is. A little sad one sometimes, but what can you do. It's also part of the ONE ... which means it is perfect in the same way as everything else.
Love!
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  #5  
Old 01-12-2017, 02:05 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,385
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Namaste and greetings to all.

With this post, I'll shall be taking leave from SF for a while...it may be days, weeks or months. I haven't decided yet.

I have reached a stalemate in regards to what can only be said and what can be directly experienced.

Has it become indeed possible, that by just uttering three magic words "I am that" and poof! bingo! presto! one has attained Brahman? The universal consciousness? realised Satchidananda? experienced the bliss that knows no limit? Achieved Samadhi on the spot without having to even do any sadhana? without even going through Patanjali's 7 limbs before jumping directly to the eighth one?

Then, whenever it gets mentioned, it's like "all that doesn't matter because I am that anyway so I don't need to do anything whatsoever".

So, they can still have their ego, still have their desires, their attachments, still have their anger and hatred, still sit in judgment over others...be like they were before they said "I am that" but saying it makes ALL the difference, because guess what, they are THAT now.

Meanwhile, for the limited few of us, who have spent countless hours in meditation, practicing kriyas, pranayama, dharana, worship...raising their kundalini to actually experience a unifying transcendental state for themselves, can only sit and wonder...my god! if it were only that easy to obtain samadhi and experientially realise the true nature of the atman beyond words, why oh why didn't the saints and sages of old say that to us in the FIRST place? It would have saved us all the trouble...who even knew that by just uttering those three words, one could transcend all material attachments, desires, experience cosmic consciousness? Well I'll be blowed.

Then the funny thing is that others will say "oh, that's because you haven't realised you are THAT yet"...gimme a break.

So, knowing that they won't, I've decided to impose one upon myself. I wish you all the best.

Iti Shivam

why do you take their proclamations seriously when you know the nature of them?

And also why do you think what you have is infinitely more valueable than whatever it is you think they have or don't have?
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  #6  
Old 01-12-2017, 02:20 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
why do you take their proclamations seriously when you know the nature of them?

And also why do you think what you have is infinitely more valueable than whatever it is you think they have or don't have?
I must admit that it's all part of my ego as well.

I see these people, whose words and actions are contradictory - seeking to 'enlighten others' through the use of their mind and their 'mental realisation' in what I feel is only an exercise in chewing 'mental gum' and my heart speaks out against it - which is probably only for my benefit and a lesson to myself.

It is probably also based on remnants of my own past and conditioning, that whenever I got tangled up in mental gymnastics, trying to think about the nature of Brahman...saying "ah...I see...I get it" I would either be told "okay, so you get it...now UNget it" or I would be whacked in the chest with the words "go HERE!" and I would stop thinking and start feeling and experiencing it for myself instead of spouting dry logic and coming to a mental/rational conclusion which was totally inconclusive.

...and maybe it's my ego who wishes to whack these people in the chest, or throw them up against a tree which 'doesn't exist' and asking them if they felt that...maybe it's my ego that wishes to drag others out of their mind and their speculative state and tell them "that's nice dear, by the way have you meditated lately?"

Maybe it's my ego who doesn't like this whole 'instant enlightenment' craze, when it totally spits in the face of everything I have learned, was taught, experienced for myself...the love, the peace, the bliss...and yet, it's something you never hear those of the 'instant enlightenment' fad mention...and there's absolutely no wonder as to why that may be.

This is it, in a nutshell.
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