Forgiveness of old friends in need... Where to draw the line?

What does one do when they're torn between forgiving and helping someone who needs it and receiving nothing but ** in return, and just watching them flounder?

I know it's a questionable idea, but I'm considering trying to make nice with a former friend, because of how awful I feel for him. The guy's a trainwreck. He objectifies the people around him and treats them as means to an end, has an explosive temper, and is completely unrepentant about his crummy attitude - and he's totally alone for it.

I've often considered trying to make up just so that he'll have someone around that he can have fun with, but we have a history. About a year ago we started going out, and a few months after that I discovered that he didn't actually like me, but out of desperation he jumped on the first girl who'd ever given him a chance in the hopes that he could finally get laid. Needless to say, things came to a screeching halt. He's like this with women as a whole, and is frequently resentful towards us - and was angry with me for months when I eventually came out as a lesbian two months ago because he saw me as a "man-hater" and as competition.

There was a point where he was trying to make up to me, but a little digging and he admitted that he was just trying to keep the one female friend he had. I honestly don't think he feels an inkling of guilt for using me, and he's only upset about what this has all meant for him. I'd be in a one-sided friendship if we started talking again, and that stings.

Every time I think of forgiving him, I find a hundred reasons to clash with the one reason I keep thinking I should: because not only can he not get a girl, he has no actual friends. He's in my social circle (I use the term loosely), and I have to watch the madness on a regular basis. It makes me internally wince. He might have treated me horribly, but I still feel for his problems.

There's a line, of that I'm sure. I just don't know where to draw it anymore. Is it ever worth it to let yourself get pushed around a little if you think it's going to make a difference for someone else?

Is he willing to get help -- ie.. talk to a therapist? He could be the way he is because of ****** parents and ****** upbringing so he honestly has no way of knowing HOW to act. His behavior could be a coping mechanism to protect him from his ****** parents and ****** childhood.

Would he EVEN be open to looking at himself under a magnifying glass and admit to himself that his behavior is causing him problems? EFT might help with the anger problem, maybe even his other stuff too. BUT he has to recognize that he's got a problem and be willing to fix it.

The good news is that we can reparent ourselves and overcome ****** childhoods and ****** parents. But it takes work.

I think everyone save maybe sociopaths have the ability to feel compassion and love. It sounds like this guy either didn't experience either growing up or his behavior is a defense mechanism to help cope with inner pain, self esteem issues, maybe self loathing. I'm not a therapist, but it's clear this guy needs one.

As far as forgiving the guy and befriending him again... Can you take a step back and not take any of his **** personally? You just might be in his life to help throw him a life line. What do you think?

Appreciate that there is considerable value in productive distance. We can be empathetic, yet not get mired in another’s drama.

Distanced Observer- http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...685#post176685

Many a person has reunited w/ someone who they considered a fixer-upper project, falling in love w/ potential & been sorely disappointed. Being w/ someone because they are alone because they treat people like garbage is a very poor reason to be w/ someone.

Is the need to be a doormat really strong????????? If so, pondering WHY may be useful!!!

Originally Posted by iolite

Is he willing to get help -- ie.. talk to a therapist? He could be the way he is because of ****** parents and ****** upbringing so he honestly has no way of knowing HOW to act. His behavior could be a coping mechanism to protect him from his ****** parents and ****** childhood.

Would he EVEN be open to looking at himself under a magnifying glass and admit to himself that his behavior is causing him problems? EFT might help with the anger problem, maybe even his other stuff too. BUT he has to recognize that he's got a problem and be willing to fix it.

Earlier when I was struggling to prevent the friendship from breaking in the first place, I went over this with him. I tried to impress upon him that because he treats people the way he does, people (especially girls he chases) aren't going to hang around. He's far from ignorant of the situation, but he's convinced it's just the way he is and that there's no use in trying to change.

Originally Posted by iolite

The good news is that we can reparent ourselves and overcome ****** childhoods and ****** parents. But it takes work.

I think everyone save maybe sociopaths have the ability to feel compassion and love. It sounds like this guy either didn't experience either growing up or his behavior is a defense mechanism to help cope with inner pain, self esteem issues, maybe self loathing. I'm not a therapist, but it's clear this guy needs one.

As far as forgiving the guy and befriending him again... Can you take a step back and not take any of his **** personally? You just might be in his life to help throw him a life line. What do you think?

Assuming our time together was somewhat infrequent, I definitely could. Despite everything he's done to me, I am concerned for what happens to him even if I have to tuck away the parts of me that want to actually love and trust this person where he can't abuse them again. The part I can't keep tucked away is the part that feels bad when I see him sabotaging his own life on a regular basis and having no one in his life, save his family (sort of?), who cares what happens to him.

I hesitate because I wonder if it's just going to be me, metaphorically, hitting my head against a brick wall for years until we have another huge fight over the way he treats people, my friends included. In an ideal world people could always change, especially if there's someone there to support them, but people don't always want to and that's a pretty big roadblock to my being in his life doing anything other than tiring me out. The biggest, possibly sole deciding factor in his life improving or changing at all is and will always be him.

forgiveness does not need to mean letting someone back into your life. you can forgive and move forward and reopen that door if/when that person changes otherwise you can forgive and move on without them.

thought this may help: http://cjsunquietmind.com/post/99647...-in-a-good-way

[innerlight]

Originally Posted by Terracotta

What does one do when they're torn between forgiving and helping someone who needs it and receiving nothing but ** in return, and just watching them flounder?

I know it's a questionable idea, but I'm considering trying to make nice with a former friend, because of how awful I feel for him. The guy's a trainwreck. He objectifies the people around him and treats them as means to an end, has an explosive temper, and is completely unrepentant about his crummy attitude - and he's totally alone for it.

I've often considered trying to make up just so that he'll have someone around that he can have fun with, but we have a history. About a year ago we started going out, and a few months after that I discovered that he didn't actually like me, but out of desperation he jumped on the first girl who'd ever given him a chance in the hopes that he could finally get laid. Needless to say, things came to a screeching halt. He's like this with women as a whole, and is frequently resentful towards us - and was angry with me for months when I eventually came out as a lesbian two months ago because he saw me as a "man-hater" and as competition.

There was a point where he was trying to make up to me, but a little digging and he admitted that he was just trying to keep the one female friend he had. I honestly don't think he feels an inkling of guilt for using me, and he's only upset about what this has all meant for him. I'd be in a one-sided friendship if we started talking again, and that stings.

Every time I think of forgiving him, I find a hundred reasons to clash with the one reason I keep thinking I should: because not only can he not get a girl, he has no actual friends. He's in my social circle (I use the term loosely), and I have to watch the madness on a regular basis. It makes me internally wince. He might have treated me horribly, but I still feel for his problems.

There's a line, of that I'm sure. I just don't know where to draw it anymore. Is it ever worth it to let yourself get pushed around a little if you think it's going to make a difference for someone else?

Hi Terracotta, I hope you are well.

I will comment on the question that you posed in the title of this thread before touching down on the actual thread itself.

Forgiveness of old friends in need and where to draw the line. When it comes to forgiveness there is no line to draw. Forgiveness is something that we should be doing. There should not be a reason that we do not forgive someone. No matter how heinous the act may of been. We should forgive them.

What happened to us has happened we can not change that fact. Not forgiving it means we are holding on to it. For us to let go of it fully we forgive the act that happened and we forgive the person.

Forgiving the person does not mean we condone the act or that we are happy it happened to us. It means we let it go. We accept that it is what happened and there is nothing that can change that.

Forgiving them does not mean we have to let them back into our lives. Our forgiving them does not mean they will change or be better people because of it. Only they can do that. We can not force them to change. We can not force them to not do it again. They have to make that decision.

Making nice with a friend does not mean you have to have them come around, or even be in your life. You can be nice with them and then close that chapter in your life. You can allow them to leave from your life.

If that person has no intentions of changing their ways or attitude you should not put yourself in a position of getting taken advantage of because you feel bad that they are unable to make friends or with having people in their life. Friendship is a two way road. If one side is the only one trying to make it work the friendship will eventually get lopsided and fall apart at the seams. Trying to hold a friendship up by yourself is not something that is easily done, and eventually you can end up taking it out on the other person.

Having concern and compassion for another person is a wonderful thing to have. Its our compassion that makes us "human" and not just animals. We can't make them be something they are not, or become something they do not want to be. They have to make that decisions. Sometimes it's the hard way that people need to learn that lesson. Sometimes that lesson is though love of us not being around them all the time. That does not mean we don't "observe" them or being there for them when they need us.