So, do you believe that God hates sin?

[barrynu]

Originally Posted by SaturninePluto

I'd like to disagree with this statement.

Not that I have a problem with children, that simply isn't so.

.

I have always gone back further when I hear that Quote from Jesus.
I think of the very young child that first begins to smile and laugh,playing peekaboo,then taking its first steps and messing in the mud and ketchup,, as they get older splashing in puddles and dreaming of santa.There is innocence there.

[jojo50]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

"God does not hate"...ding ding ding Sow...reap...no hate from God. Not possible.

true Jehovah God... Loves and he's the God of LOVE, (1John 4:8). if he didn't love us, he wouldn't have sent his Son to die for imperfect sinners such as ourselves. STILL!... even a he can hate, and he does! NOT the person but the ACTIONS of a person.

example...MANY "CHRISTIANS" (we know who we are), are having sex out of marriage. don't suppose to because that's something he HATES! and what is the opposite of truth...lie! if he loves truth, than how could he love lies? humans straddles the fence ,NOT Jehovah God. so yes he does hate!

[sky]

Originally Posted by jojo50

why didn't you to take the time to read "Proverbs 6:16" concerning the six things that Jehovah DID say he HATES... before you went accusing some one of being delusional. it's NOT a "delusion" it's his words NOT the words of an imperfect human. I'll post it for you ,(Pro. 6:16-19 These six things the Lord hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him. A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil, A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren). so there it is, do you still feel it was his own "perception"? peace

No jojo it's not HIS words but the words of the scribe, see the difference. We all percieve differently ( thanks be to God) I don't feel any hate so neither does the God ( my God ) Hatred comes from within, I don't have any hatred inside.





' If he didn't love us, he wouldn't have sent his Son to die for imperfect sinners such as ourselves '

His Son died because of hatred not for sinners, mybe you feel your a sinner but you can't speak for everyone that is ego... Judging others is not good.

[Taneli]

The sincerity of child. They do not pretend.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Taneli

The sincerity of child. They do not pretend.

Oh yes they do petend to get their own way

[Spirited]

Originally Posted by SaturninePluto

I'd like to disagree with this statement.

Not that I have a problem with children, that simply isn't so.

But on a more innocent level I feel that yes they do discriminate and judge.

On an innocent level- think of a child at the dinner table served spinach, broccoli, cauliflower, liver, and they say to their parents- "What is this"? While picking up a bit of liver in their fork. Their mother tells them "Well that's liver honey". They proceed then to make a judgement- their own judgement and they say "Well I don't like it". So the mom asks "Well how do you know if you've never tried it"? Trust me. When I said I did not like liver as a child, I didn't like it. I know my personal tastes, and preferences.

I am no longer a child. I will still to this day not touch liver.

I will also not touch turkey or chicken gizzards, I will not consume rye bread,

And I will never ever touch lamb.

I knew each and every one of these things, after having tried them each while very young.

And you know what I did? I used my mind and formed by trying them my own judgments about them.

I found these things, in this example foods, dislike able to my personal taste. That my friend is a judgement.

Children in fact do make them all the time, it is a part of being domesticated.

Are most children prejudice? No, not at first. But they do become programmed by the opinions, the poison gossip, the curse words, the name calling they hear from those in their immediate environment, and yes they actually do form judgments. Early on even. Perhaps not as malicious as the judgments of adults, as when children are very young their judgments tend to be more normal, rational judgments that are healthy.

A good example of what I mean is when I was a child I didn't care for playing with dolls. I ended up cutting a lot of their hair attempting to style it, and becoming frustrated, not because I felt I was doing a bad job, but because for some odd reason I got it in my head I wanted to style their hair, but I had no ability to understand why. It was possibly a neighbor friend who told me this is something a girl would do with a doll.

But I was not fond of dolls, and actually pretty afraid of a lot of them. But I did have toys I did like. I liked small match box cars, I used to crash into each other in fake accidents, and then hold a funeral for them.... don't ask me why, I don't know, lol.

And I had a very big fondness for My Little Ponies. I preferred them to dolls.

These were judgments, and children do make them, over time, conditioning, and domestication, listening to the gossips, personal opinions, and hatreds of our parents- the judgments over time, are more than likely to become less of an innocent- I don't like peas, or barbies type thing.

My point? I don't feel children come the closest to unconditional love. The only thing I have found to perfect this is God.

And my next closest are not children, angels, nor cheribum alike, but animals.

I feel animals other than God are the very closest beings to unconditional love I've ever encountered.

My house cat never calls me names, hollers at me, gives me hateful glances, or tells me he thinks my outfit is ugly. He also never tells me where to go, what to do, whom to spend time with, and I simply don't have to put up with his personal opinion on anything.

But the biggest thing I respect about him, is he is honestly simply happy to see me, where everyone else is complaining in my ear, hollering, arguing religion or politics, name calling etc etc etc, ceaselessly.

Do I think he sits there and judges me? If he does I certainly don't have to hear about it, and he purrs the entire time, for whatever that means or is worth.

And my other point? Every human being judges. Even children, and yes imo even Jesus.

Many thanks for the response SaturninePluto

I agree with you completely regarding animals and I've said the exact same thing many times over myself and of course God would be number 1 in terms of showing true unconditional love.

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I'd hoped in my initial statement - of course, children like any creature that has an ability to think and make choice are capable of judging a situation in one way or another. Like your example of the child's judgement over the food, so too would my cats at home in the past have multiple option before dry or wet food, or between wet food or actual meat and they would sniff at both and make that judgement of what they prefer. Likewise, much like a child, before now, my cats have completely tossed their noses up to something I've offered them that is good for their health.

Children make all sorts of opinions and judgements on varying things. But none of those things are ever driven through true hate. That only occurs once our mind grows up and matures. So much of our past time is based on racism for example, and even now many parts of the world still is in some forms - yet if you were to put children of varying backgrounds and ethnicitys together at a young age - they would not segregate themselves or discriminate. They'd all hold hands and play along.

Children become adults, or young adults, and learn to bring in these prejudices which are born through a hatred of some kind and is not of Love. Children are not born with any innate tendencies to hate others based on colour, economic status, sexuality or anything else for that matter, it is all learned. A child will simply see the best in everyone despite who they are - and will only make petty judgements if they had a bad experience with another person - but again, this isn't from hate, but child-like disapproval. I.e. If one child shared a treat with a child and another child refused, the child would learn next time to ask the one who is willing in future - however, initially, no judgement would have occurred that we see occur in every adults.

When Jesus spoke about being like children, he wasn't saying we need to be petty and child-like - but rather we must regain that unconditional love. We must see the world not in division based on numerous different things (ethnicity, religion, economic status, sexual orientation, disability, colour the list goes on..) but rather as a child would see it and that we are all equals and of the same flesh.

Salvation is also much like a child-like acceptance of a gift. As adults, (most of us and certainly myself) we feel uncomfortable receiving gifts off of people, especially when we've not earned it. We feel we need to repay it or earn it. If we go about salvation this way, we will always fail. A child will be all too willing to accept a free gift without question and be grateful - no questions asked. This is what God requires of us - be grateful, be thankful, trust, accept and love unconditionally - and this is why I quoted the part of scripture that I did.

God bless.

[Spirited]

Originally Posted by sky123

Sorry to disagree but little children can be little monster I have plenty of them in my Family.
The children in the parable were ' brought and carried ' to Jesus so they must have been babies which makes more sense, to me anyway. I think it's all about the helplessness of babies that Jesus is referring to. Just my opinion of course

Haha, they certainly can be

But that refers to children's attitudes which like any ones is dependant on mood at any given time. Having moods, strops and the like are not based on hate or come from hate, they're not evil intentions. Just child like pettiness usually.

I was talking more about their perception of things, the world, other people - there is no hate based emotions in children that we as adults have historically produced (racism, homophobia etc) - not until they are old enough to become cultured and so then produce what they are used to. But initially, this is not innate. See my response to SaturninePluto for more detail.

God bless!

Originally Posted by sky123

No hatred from God, it comes from your perception only, delusions....

I guess you like the majority will find out the hard way. Many whole civilizations did in the OT. Which included the destruction of their children as well. God isnt messing around--He HATES sin.

Originally Posted by SaturninePluto

I've been waiting patiently for more hardcore die hard Christians to answer hoping for some type of consensus before offering my much less hardcore own Christian perspective.

Jehova's Witnesses have answered.

As well as Taneli- Welcome to Sf Taneli, and Amilius both of whoms religious preference I know not of.

My personal worship is my own.

And I can not speak for those hardcore Christians.

My personal view is that God does not hate anything nor anyone.

Those who disagree can conjecture, argue, and ask how I draw my conclusion all day long.

But am I obligated to answer them, or anyone, or their questions?

But yes that is my own view on the matter.

That God is not capable of such hatreds.

Such emotions are a matter of the human heart, imo.

So when God wiped out whole civilizations, which included their children. Was that love or hate?

[sky]

Originally Posted by kjw47

I guess you like the majority will find out the hard way. Many whole civilizations did in the OT. Which included the destruction of their children as well. God isnt messing around--He HATES sin.

Or mybe you will find out the hard way