Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Christianity

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 14-06-2017, 01:54 AM
MattMVS7 MattMVS7 is offline
Experiencer
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 302
 
Isn't it obvious there should be no hell?

I think it is quite obvious that there should be no concept of original sin where sinners are condemned to hell to suffer for eternity. I am going to explain why. It is no different than how it is quite obvious that what Hitler did to the Jews was wrong and sadistic. If you just use your gut moral instinct, then it will become quite obvious to you that what Hitler did was wrong and sadistic. However, if you were indoctrinated with some sort of teaching that taught you that what Hitler did was right and you believed this, then you would have been led away from your very morality as a human being towards a false and cruel teaching.

This false and cruel teaching would have changed your sense of morality over towards a cruel and unrighteous moral standard that you have been fooled into thinking was a righteous moral standard. When it comes to fundamentalist Christianity and other religions that teach a God who condemns even kind and respectful family members to hell for being sinners, then this is the same scenario. Anybody who believes that an all loving and all just God would do that would have been led astray from their sense of righteous morality towards a new moral standard that is unrighteous, cruel, and is a moral standard that they have been fooled into thinking is an all loving, all just, and righteous moral standard.

Just from using my own gut moral instinct, I can obviously see how such a God would be a cruel and sadistic God just as how I can use my gut moral instinct in seeing how Hitler was cruel and sadistic as well. There are many kind people out in this world who would also agree with me as well. This says a lot here. This clearly says here that religions such as fundamentalist Christianity twist our sense of morality to where we believe that the cruel and unrighteous acts of a morally atrocious God are instead righteous and holy acts of an all loving and all just God. Sinners, including kind people, are condemned on judgment day by this type of God, they go to hell to suffer for eternity, and God never chooses to get them out and put them someplace else.

This, to me, is obviously a worse treatment than even Hitler. If only people would just use their gut moral instinct, focus on that, and forget all of the false and cruel teachings they were taught, then they will obviously see how the moral standard set forth by these types of religious Gods and figures is a cruel, unjust, and morally atrocious moral standard regardless of how many loving and just acts these types of Gods have performed. These Gods performing loving and just acts does not justify their cruel and morally atrocious acts no matter how you try to justify it. The reason why I am not a fundamentalist Christian is because of the very fact that I have used my gut moral instinct. However, other people sacrifice their gut moral instinct and believe in false teachings.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 14-06-2017, 04:46 AM
neil neil is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ♡AUSTRALIA♡
Posts: 1,466
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattMVS7
I think it is quite obvious that there should be no concept of original sin where sinners are condemned to hell to suffer for eternity. I am going to explain why. It is no different than how it is quite obvious that what Hitler did to the Jews was wrong and sadistic. If you just use your gut moral instinct, then it will become quite obvious to you that what Hitler did was wrong and sadistic. However, if you were indoctrinated with some sort of teaching that taught you that what Hitler did was right and you believed this, then you would have been led away from your very morality as a human being towards a false and cruel teaching.

This false and cruel teaching would have changed your sense of morality over towards a cruel and unrighteous moral standard that you have been fooled into thinking was a righteous moral standard. When it comes to fundamentalist Christianity and other religions that teach a God who condemns even kind and respectful family members to hell for being sinners, then this is the same scenario. Anybody who believes that an all loving and all just God would do that would have been led astray from their sense of righteous morality towards a new moral standard that is unrighteous, cruel, and is a moral standard that they have been fooled into thinking is an all loving, all just, and righteous moral standard.

Just from using my own gut moral instinct, I can obviously see how such a God would be a cruel and sadistic God just as how I can use my gut moral instinct in seeing how Hitler was cruel and sadistic as well. There are many kind people out in this world who would also agree with me as well. This says a lot here. This clearly says here that religions such as fundamentalist Christianity twist our sense of morality to where we believe that the cruel and unrighteous acts of a morally atrocious God are instead righteous and holy acts of an all loving and all just God. Sinners, including kind people, are condemned on judgment day by this type of God, they go to hell to suffer for eternity, and God never chooses to get them out and put them someplace else.

This, to me, is obviously a worse treatment than even Hitler. If only people would just use their gut moral instinct, focus on that, and forget all of the false and cruel teachings they were taught, then they will obviously see how the moral standard set forth by these types of religious Gods and figures is a cruel, unjust, and morally atrocious moral standard regardless of how many loving and just acts these types of Gods have performed. These Gods performing loving and just acts does not justify their cruel and morally atrocious acts no matter how you try to justify it. The reason why I am not a fundamentalist Christian is because of the very fact that I have used my gut moral instinct. However, other people sacrifice their gut moral instinct and believe in false teachings.

Persons who think as you do, about all of the above do not yet understand what hell & eternal suffering is, & why it has come into existence, & who brings it into existence for each individual who is in a hellish location & or hellish condition of 'self being'.

If you haven't witnessed with your own eyes, a being who is in such a hellish condition of 'soul being' & what kind of effect, that it's continuing hellish 'soul condition' is having on that being, then you may never understand hell & eternal suffering.

Eternal suffering is only present for each individual, who is enduring it, while the being who is enduring it, is continualy causing it to happen.

The horrific appearance of the spiritual body& state of mind, of a person who is in a hellish condition can ease & that being can start to heal, if it will stop causing it to happen through the unloving thoughts & actions of that being.

The being in question does not have to suffer eternally & will only continue to suffer eternally if it will not stop perpetrating unloving thoughts & actions against others.

Unloving thoughts & actions against others, activates the spiritual law of "reap as you sow'' and this law is in place & is activated by any being who does perpetrate an unloving act upon another being.

The law has been put in place by creator, but is not activated by creator, because creator does not judge anyone nor does creator impinge on any sentient beings 'free will'...even if that sentient being is using it's free will to harm other sentient or non sentient beings....
....creator is not the judge & jury & does not condemn sentient beings to a hellish location or condition. ....
....we judge ourselves & our condition becomes more & more hellish, with every unloving thought & action upon other sentient & or non sentient beings, via the everlasting 'law of reap as you sow'.

& if there was not such a law in place, in the universe, then sentent beings could keep on treating others with such unimaginable cruelty for eternity, & that would be an unloving universe, created by a sadistic unloving god/creator.
But the universe is a self correcting universe of love, & designed & set up by a "loving god/creator" who does not judge & or condemn us, & does not condone in our any sentient or non sentient beings suffering.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 14-06-2017, 05:03 AM
H:O:R:A:C:E H:O:R:A:C:E is offline
Master
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5,806
  H:O:R:A:C:E's Avatar
i think that "projection" might have a great deal to do with the issue.
people can imagine that others have 'evil intentions' (through projection),
and then use it to justify taking actions against them. misidentification
of self (also through projection?) can lead people to believe that they
need to attack others (or protect themselves from them)... without a
true cause. corporations are NOT people... there is no valid reason for
a human to fight another human, in order to defend or advance some
ideology or institution (in my opinion).

it is obvious that there should be no hell.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 14-06-2017, 05:50 AM
neil neil is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ♡AUSTRALIA♡
Posts: 1,466
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E
i think that "projection" might have a great deal to do with the issue.
people can imagine that others have 'evil intentions' (through projection),
and then use it to justify taking actions against them. misidentification
of self (also through projection?) can lead people to believe that they
need to attack others (or protect themselves from them)... without a
true cause. corporations are NOT people... there is no valid reason for
a human to fight another human, in order to defend or advance some
ideology or institution (in my opinion).

it is obvious that there should be no hell.

You are speaking of humans, & corporations in a location such as the physical earth environment. And suggest that it is obvious that there should be no hell.

So let us contemplate an earth environment without a law and order system and a lifetime in a locked up cell (which we could say is a kind of hell) for a reoffending unloving person.....could you imagine the horifficness of the rape, murder, torture, theft, enslavement, etc etc etc. There would be if such a system was not in place.

So in your mind and ideology, think that it is obvious that there should also not be such a system in place.

What do you think a spiritual being could do with their spiritual abilities & powers of the mind if there was not a self correcting & self activating system called "reap as you sow", not set up and in place to deter and or stop an unloving spiritual being from doing unloving things to others...they could keep on doing it for eternity....can you not understand and or fathom the gravity of any of that.

Did you read any of my post above....did any of it not resonate with you.
.......What say you.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 14-06-2017, 08:36 AM
Baile Baile is online now
Master
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,668
  Baile's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattMVS7
Isn't it obvious there should be no hell?
When higher-self wisdom awakens, yes it's obvious.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 14-06-2017, 09:23 AM
shoni7510 shoni7510 is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Pretoria South Africa
Posts: 19,523
  shoni7510's Avatar
I can't wrap my head around the concept of hell so I am not sure if there is a hell or not.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 14-06-2017, 10:16 AM
H:O:R:A:C:E H:O:R:A:C:E is offline
Master
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5,806
  H:O:R:A:C:E's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil
You are speaking of humans, & corporations in a location such as the physical earth environment. And suggest that it is obvious that there should be no hell.

So let us contemplate an earth environment without a law and order system and a lifetime in a locked up cell (which we could say is a kind of hell) for a reoffending unloving person.....could you imagine the horifficness of the rape, murder, torture, theft, enslavement, etc etc etc. There would be if such a system was not in place.

So in your mind and ideology, think that it is obvious that there should also not be such a system in place.

What do you think a spiritual being could do with their spiritual abilities & powers of the mind if there was not a self correcting & self activating system called "reap as you sow", not set up and in place to deter and or stop an unloving spiritual being from doing unloving things to others...they could keep on doing it for eternity....can you not understand and or fathom the gravity of any of that.

Did you read any of my post above....did any of it not resonate with you.
.......What say you.
i was in the process of making my post before yours was in evidence.
i have read it since.
i do not believe that there exists "eternal damnation"... God has the
attribute of 'eternal', but is not damned -- only holy things can share
in eternity.
the "system" that you posit is not required [as i see things].
for those who wish to be quarantined from holiness and heaven,
such a thing is possible, but it's certainly not mandated by anyone
towards anyone [unless by oneself to oneself].
to become determined to create reality out of accord with heavenly
intentions is to shut oneself off from God's presence (permanently?),
and such a condition is "non-sustainable", since it is Source energy
[solely] which provides the 'spark of life'... to force oneself into
permanent residence outside of God's purview is to court death and
it would amount to the cessation of being.
perhaps i'm not so much in disagreement with you as you might suppose...
i'm simply using different words to speak of a similar concept.

be well brother neil.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 14-06-2017, 10:17 AM
Baile Baile is online now
Master
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,668
  Baile's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoni7510
I can't wrap my head around the concept of hell so I am not sure if there is a hell or not.
When one has comes to a wisdom understanding of these things, it's not even a matter anymore of wondering and thinking about them. Contemplations about hell and so forth fall away from the mind and are gone forever. It's a true conscious-paradigm shift that happens. The singular desire then becomes one of nurturing healthy, progressive spiritual envisioning and perception.

It's like this: Someone in your life is hateful, and makes hateful remarks towards everything in the world. One day you realize that you love life, and see life as beautiful. You wake up to the realization that being around this hateful person is not progressing your life. You come to see you can choose what's good and beautiful. And so you remove this person from your life and never see them again. And from then on you never even think about them again, because to even think about them is to place yourself back into their hateful consciousness space. And you have no interest in doing that because you know that life is good and beautiful.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 14-06-2017, 01:21 PM
shoni7510 shoni7510 is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Pretoria South Africa
Posts: 19,523
  shoni7510's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baile
When one has comes to a wisdom understanding of these things, it's not even a matter anymore of wondering and thinking about them. Contemplations about hell and so forth fall away from the mind and are gone forever. It's a true conscious-paradigm shift that happens. The singular desire then becomes one of nurturing healthy, progressive spiritual envisioning and perception.

It's like this: Someone in your life is hateful, and makes hateful remarks towards everything in the world. One day you realize that you love life, and see life as beautiful. You wake up to the realization that being around this hateful person is not progressing your life. You come to see you can choose what's good and beautiful. And so you remove this person from your life and never see them again. And from then on you never even think about them again, because to even think about them is to place yourself back into their hateful consciousness space. And you have no interest in doing that because you know that life is good and beautiful.

I couldn't have said it better!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 14-06-2017, 01:54 PM
Baile Baile is online now
Master
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,668
  Baile's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoni7510
I couldn't have said it better!
FYI and in case it wasn't clear, I wasn't questioning your post, I wrote what I did in support of what you wrote. Just offering a slightly different take. For me, when I can't wrap my head around something, it's usually because it holds no value at all for me. I connect with the ideas that resonant; and ideas resonate because I connect with them. If they don't resonant, it's a sure sign I don't need to give them another thought.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums