Master and Student

[Xan]

Originally Posted by Gem

I took it to mean the guy on the hill was just sittin there but someone saw himself as 'student' and to validate that imposed the image of 'master' on the poor bloke who was just sittin there.

It works the other way round too.

Yep... Sometimes those roles are useful temporarily, and rejecting them sets up a whole different set of self images.


Xan

[Jeff4freedom]

Yes Xan,

But the Teacher did answer the question...

and demonstrate the answer quite clearly..

It just wasn't in a ..... format that the Student's ego desired.


My rule of thumb is.... If someone calls themselves a Master...

Walk in the opposite direction from them as quickly as possible..



In the story the Master did not call himself a Master

He simply was

.....SIMPLY WAS.....


The student was not so Simple


so the Simple answer eluded him


and the method in which it was delivered


did not fit with his Expectations of the Master..

So he left, because he was not ready for what the Master had to offer.


The first thing we have to learn about our Teachers is...

No expectations...

That would mean we thought we knew what someone advanced beyond us

should be, or do.


I've never been one to put a Teacher on a Pedestal...

It just runs contrary to my Nature


But I attempt the Humilty needed to learn lessons

Without the Humility

we tend,
as you can see here demonstrated..


we tend to put our own thoughts and ideas all over the simple lessons


Losing the Point in our attempt to understand it....


But it is the lack of Humility that makes us miss the lesson.

[Xan]

Here's another possible view of this teaching story (which is probably not about an actual master and student but a metaphor):

In the remote chance that the student did actually take this shouted teaching to heart (I couldn't have, could you?) he then had sudden enlightenment and went down the mountain to plow his fields and feed his chickens in pure silent awareness for the rest of his life.

hmmm?


Xan

[Xan]

But it is the lack of Humility that makes us miss the lesson.

Well then, Jeff, who is to show us how to accept our inherent humility or openness or readiness or whatever is really lacking?

Or are we to remain judged as 'lacking' for the rest of our days, with no master to support our process of awakening in the silence?

As for me, it took a variety of teachers, teachings and methods to gradually come awake in the silent presence of love that is within and all around me, and I am one of the lucky ones.


Xan

[Jeff4freedom]

You know Xan, I'm not sure how I'd take a message that was yelled from my Teacher..

I mean in my last life it came with a rap from a cane....
but that was last life..
and I took it with a degree of humility I suppose because I knew my Teacher ...
was a Teacher...
But I left that life......
angry at my Teacher there....
and I'm a hard nosed Aries in this life that doesn't do well with authority.....
so I don't know how I'd do...


There are different styles of teachers,
just as there are different types of students.

Some require a rap with a cane

others require other things...

Each case is different,
and a Master would be able to discern from case to case,
the preferable approach.


Yes, very often the lack of Humility makes us miss a lesson,
because we feel we know better than the Teacher.

If we feel we know better than the Teacher...
a lack of Humility....
we don't accept the lesson...
and miss out.

Good teachers do not coddle one's ego
they expose it....
That's the only way we can deal with it
once it's exposed...

Lack of humility will not allow us to face the painful truths about our selves.

I like your scenario about the student getting it.... and reaching enlightenment...

There is this Western idea that all teachers are Mother Theresa...

gently guiding you through your egos illusions and glamours.... towards enlightenment

Not so....

One of the final steps for Monks in Tibet
(keep in mind a totally different....paradigm there)...
We had to go and sit in a Graveyard.....
The dead weren't buried.....
just lain out for the animals and elements.....
for one in that Paradigm this was the hardest test..
It was the height of .... cultural fears..... It was hard core facing our ego's judgments about the most..... relevant factors in our beliefs....
It was not gentle..... and the only salvation from overwhelming Fear....
was Letting go....
Allowing the Enlightenment that exists always within us....
to be, un hindered by all the dualistic judgments we had imposed upon the world since the day our souls entered it..

Hard core, but sometimes that's what it takes..

This has carried over for me into this life in some strange behaviors.

I'll put myself....actually my whole life I've put myself in situations that any sane man would run away fro.... In the heart of a group of drunk drug crazed bikers.... just as an example....or in between a man with a sawed off shotgun and a guy he really wanted to kill. so that I could re-test myself....
and also because again,
the only salvation was....
purity and Harmlessness.

And you know what is sooo cool and amazing.
Every single time I've done this...
and that's been a lot of times
um, the "threat" not only became not a threat...
But rather I was able to touch the heart...and feel the heart of folks who hadn't felt Love....maybe ever in this life.
Quite a few times they broke down and cried.... I get calls on Christmas from folks that used to live around here...that everybody was afraid of.... folks with little rural legends spoken around them in hushed fearful tones...hard freakin cases that call me up.... and tell me, they Love me......
It was not because I coddled them..... that might have got me dead.
It was because I was pure and real within myself.

If I was a Teacher, I doubt folks would care much for me.
I'm 4th Ray mostly this time around.
I don't think that's the best type of Teacher if you want an easy time of it...
I'd take a second Ray, or 5th or 7th ,or 6th, or 3rd over me any time.
Maybe not those willful 1st Ray folks....
but not a 4th,
not unless I was a masochist...


So when I communicate to folks.....
not considering myself a Teacher...
but tellin what I know.... for now
as what I "know" changes on an hourly basis
I do it in the Harmony through Conflict Way......
and generally rub em the wrong way....

OH well....

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Xan

Yep... Sometimes those roles are useful temporarily, and rejecting them sets up a whole different set of self images.


Xan

I already explained the fallacy of the role play Xan. There's no point entertaining such notions.

[Xan]

Originally Posted by Gem

I already explained the fallacy of the role play Xan. There's no point entertaining such notions.

ohhhh... You took it personally. I see.

It is useful to pay more attention to our own role playing than examining and judging others' personas, since that is yet another... well, you know.


Xan

[Xan]

So when I communicate to folks.....
not considering myself a Teacher...
but tellin what I know.... for now
as what I "know" changes on an hourly basis
I do it in the Harmony through Conflict Way......
and generally rub em the wrong way....

OH well....


I know just what you mean, Fred.

We don't seem able to choose our style
of communicating what we've discovered...
Some love it, some hate it...
some get the message and some don't.
No Teacher or Master, or non-teacher or un-master reaches everyone.

Oh well
Somehow and somewhen all will be touched.

I figure whatever I do or witness is part of my current step
toward full freedom
So it's all good.


blessings
Xan

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Xan

ohhhh... You took it personally. I see.

It is useful to pay more attention to our own role playing than examining and judging others' personas, since that is yet another... well, you know.


Xan

That's not true. You make it personal about me, just as you did in the suffering thread, and even that remark is a continuation of it, and I explained it, which makes your remark in the previous post about some people dont listen more applicable to you, as it seems to me there's a blatant disregard for anything I actually say to you, which is so aptly demonstrated your comment above. I've been over it at length now, did as best I could, so that's as much as I can do.

[Xan]

I do hear you, Gem. How could I not, since you say the same thing again and again...

You believe what I say to you comes from an ego need to play the role of a healer/teacher.

I say the same thing to you again and again... You don't see me as I am. My genuine concern for emotional suffering in people is part of my life path, and letting go of clinging to that role has long been another part. I've made a lot of progress, believe it or not.


Xan