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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Judaism

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  #31  
Old 18-02-2012, 06:56 PM
Animus27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheus
Keyword, "Catholic", and some related the doctrine to the pagan, "Queen of Heaven" teachings prevalent in ancient times.
You can Google that.
'Tis true that many perceptions of Mary seem to be influenced by pagan goddesses. But I fail to see how any else of what you said is even mildly relevant lol.
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  #32  
Old 19-02-2012, 01:19 PM
Morpheus Morpheus is offline
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Animus:
Quote:

'Tis true that many perceptions of Mary seem to be influenced by pagan goddesses. But I fail to see how any else of what you said is even mildly relevant lol.

Well, who stated again that the Jews don't believe in original sin?
Much of what I wrote was explanation as to why otherwise is true.

Quote:
Sin is to be equated with this evolved organic, in illusory space/time, and this physical situation in which we find ourselves, with respect to a, "Fall".

I am aware that the Jews certainly accept the events in Genesis, regarding this. Speaking of the non secular Jews.
Why would someone state that, "original sin", is not accepted?

Death and decay, (essentially Time), began, we are told in the scriptures, at,
"The Fall".

(Background and reason as to why.)
I am of Jewish lineage, btw.
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  #33  
Old 19-02-2012, 11:59 PM
Animus27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheus
Animus:


Well, who stated again that the Jews don't believe in original sin?
Much of what I wrote was explanation as to why otherwise is true.



(Background and reason as to why.)
I am of Jewish lineage, btw.
From what I know - the doctrine of Original Sin is a completely Christian concept, that is rejected by most, if not all Jewish sects. So, what is your point?
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  #34  
Old 20-02-2012, 05:28 AM
Yamah
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What was intended by the statement 'Jews don't believe in Original Sin' is 'Jews don't believe in the ramifications of the Original Sin as described by Catholics'. Specifically, Jews don't believe that every person is born into a state of sinfulness which must then be cleansed. It is obvious of course that the physical world exists in a lowered state because of Adam's fall and that we, in turn, are affected. But individuals are born pure until they themselves sin. The biggest difference between the two opinions is that a newborn child who dies, according to Catholics goes to hell and according to Jews goes straight to Gan Eden (heaven).

I believe the misunderstanding is based on the statement 'the sins of a father will fall on their children'. According to Christians this means the state of guilt resulting from a sin. According to Jews this means two things: first that the punishment (but not guilt) will be felt by a child and second that the child will be more prone to succumbing to that sin (like the child of an alcoholic tends to be an alcoholic). Guilt is non-transferable.
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  #35  
Old 21-02-2012, 12:05 AM
UniverseofLove UniverseofLove is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychoslice
This link will take you to "murder in the bible", it will show you throughout the bible how god killed so many in his name, its not a pretty sight.

http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

I've skimmed through it and yes, it is rather disturbing, but doesn't all sound like the bible I know. Many were out of context, and I don't want to find them now as my bible (right next to me) is a different version.
It seems most are from the mouths of men about "the Lord" and not by the "Lord's" mouth, so that sounds to me that the authors/editors were particularly hateful, not the God in question.

Thanks for the link, anyway. I will probably take a look, using my bible as a reference for context :)


Since I'm taking into account the bible being written by men, I'd like to know whether today's Jews take the Torah by it's every word and how they view their God.

Yamah, I noticed you spoke of Adam's fall. What is your view on Adam and Eve? By that I mean, do you believe that our origins are what happened in the Garden of Eden as Genesis portrays? (I'm aware of the variety of translations but have no idea what you or other Jews use.)
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  #36  
Old 21-02-2012, 04:43 AM
Yamah
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Every word of the Torah is TRUE. Not every word is literal. All the events of the Exodus and further happened just as is written - every Jewish source states that unwaveringly.

As for the book of Genesis, there is some debate as to where to draw the line between what happened in the physical reality in which we find ourselves and what happened in a higher spiritual dimension which is different from our own. Rare sources state that even Abraham, Isaac and Jacob still lived in spiritual reality and weren't actual people and that the progeny of Israel's twelve sons were the first to incarnate physically. Most sources, however, draw the line either at the fall of adam or the great flood. Before that time everything written HAPPENED, but happened in a spiritual world that we cannot comprehend from 'down here'.

Some modern sources attempt to say that the story of Adam and Chava (Eve) actually happened in a literal sense. There is no basis for such an interpretation in any traditional Jewish source and such a belief comes about either through ignorance of our source material, Christian influence or both.
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  #37  
Old 21-03-2012, 04:10 AM
sbjazzman
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Many sources - selected answers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
Interesting. In particular that Judaism does not believe in the Immaculate Conception or The Resurrection....

There are Gospels that don't believe in it - The Aquarian Gospel for one (at least the Immaculate Conception). The Koran says Jesus was not crucified as do other sources I mention in my book.
I'd post a link but I can't so I google Aquarian Gospel or try to get to the forum at my site be going to Oracle of the Phoenix dot com.
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  #38  
Old 22-03-2012, 05:18 PM
Reverend Keith Reverend Keith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbjazzman
There are Gospels that don't believe in it - The Aquarian Gospel for one (at least the Immaculate Conception). The Koran says Jesus was not crucified as do other sources I mention in my book.
I'd post a link but I can't so I google Aquarian Gospel or try to get to the forum at my site be going to Oracle of the Phoenix dot com.

Personally, I'm not big on the authenticity of the Aquarian Gospel. However, you don't have to go so far afield to find a gospel that doesn't teach the virgin birth or the resurrection. The Gospel of Mark seems to imply that Jesus is adopted as a Son of God at his baptism, and doesn't mention his birth. And most scholars agree that the last part of Mark that describes the resurrection is a later addition.
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