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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Hinduism

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  #21  
Old 28-02-2019, 03:49 PM
Jainarayan Jainarayan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master M
My answer is biased! Krishna all the way. I consider myself an omnist, not even a Vaishnava, and have had a sweet experience with Shiva, albeit intense. My best friend, who introduced me to Krishna, was more into Shiva and Kali as he worshiped them in past lives. Me on the other hand, Krishna charmed me from the beginning and I fell in love with Him. Krishna is also the one who purified my heart and made it so that for the first time in my life, I was not a slave to lust. I even considered being celibate for life because of Him, since He fulfilled me in so many ways.

As someone who believes in the validity of all of the Gods and Goddesses from every culture, my bias does not extend to say that Krishna is better. They are both perfect and full manifestations of Brahman. At their core they are the essence of love, and love is the quickest path. I consider love to transcend all dualities, even within and without, for it transforms the whole.

Krishna to me, being a deity who embodies the path of Bhakti, or devotional love, is much simpler, as I believe the quote "love is the quickest and surest path." That said, as far as Guru's go, I coincidentally lean to the late Shaivite, Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. I'll take him over Prabhupada any day, even though I love and admire Prabhupada for spreading and advocating love for Krishna and all things related to Him.

The Buddha would be even more unbiased than me and tell you to do what satisfies your own soul. I just can't imagine Krishna not satisfying anybody. I've had so many fulfilling experiences with Him. Jai Krishna!

I feel it was Maa Saraswati who brought me to Krishna. But in the beginning I did not feel a closeness. I still occasionally feel like I really don't know him, but I know he knows me. It may be because I am so unlike him... I am more like Thor, whom I do pray to... but I pray and do puja daily to Krishna that he help me become more like him... compassionate, patient (something I fail at), calm and easy-going, tolerant, not easily ruffled.

Sometimes I feel like the archetypal "antihero" of books and movies. Y'know, the guy who wants to do the right thing but his faults get in the way. All the while the mentor is watching patiently for the moment when the antihero finds his way. Segue to an episode of Xena Warrior Princess called The Way. Don't laugh, it was a good episode. I sprang for the $1.99 or $3.99 to download it from Xfinity. She goes to India and meets Hanuman and Krishna. Krishna instructs Xena on what is her way, and that she must follow it, even though she disapproves of herself. All the while Krishna is patient and understanding.

That episode is soooo me.
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  #22  
Old 28-02-2019, 05:00 PM
Master M Master M is offline
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Thank you for sharing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jainarayan
I feel it was Maa Saraswati who brought me to Krishna. But in the beginning I did not feel a closeness. I still occasionally feel like I really don't know him, but I know he knows me. It may be because I am so unlike him... I am more like Thor, whom I do pray to... but I pray and do puja daily to Krishna that he help me become more like him... compassionate, patient (something I fail at), calm and easy-going, tolerant, not easily ruffled.

Sometimes I feel like the archetypal "antihero" of books and movies. Y'know, the guy who wants to do the right thing but his faults get in the way. All the while the mentor is watching patiently for the moment when the antihero finds his way. Segue to an episode of Xena Warrior Princess called The Way. Don't laugh, it was a good episode. I sprang for the $1.99 or $3.99 to download it from Xfinity. She goes to India and meets Hanuman and Krishna. Krishna instructs Xena on what is her way, and that she must follow it, even though she disapproves of herself. All the while Krishna is patient and understanding.

That episode is soooo me.

I love references to Krishna in nonreligious material. Like in Batman: Gotham Knight, episode 5 when Batman goes to India to find a way to deal with his pain, there was a picture of the four armed Vishnu on the wall of the place of the one who trained him. In Batman: The TellTale series, in Selina's apartment you find a copy of The Gita Govinda. Neil Gaiman, a prominent graphic novelist also features much of the Hindu pantheon in his works, and I recall my friend telling me a story where a little girl, who was the incarnation of Kali was protecting a pregnant woman from G-men. The woman was pregnant with none other than Krishna himself.

I can relate to feeling like an anti-hero, and I liked how you described it too. I consider stories like Buddha and Angulimala, a sort of Saul turned Paul story with more insight, to be very helpful. Much of the beauty of Krishna is how much grace He shows in handling even the most wicked figures. As far as patience. That was the first lesson I learned, when I was still a Christian. Nature can teach you much.
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  #23  
Old 28-02-2019, 05:11 PM
Jainarayan Jainarayan is online now
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So many western writers, philosophers, artists and others like that are fascinated by eastern, and especially Indian culture and religion. James Cameron's inspiration for Avatar ultimately came from Hinduism, via his mother, which you may know. My ears perk up and my hair stands on end when I see or hear a reference to the gods or anything Hindu in a non-Hindu vehicle. Except Ancient Aliens. Their references to the gods and Hinduism make me want to hurt myself.
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  #24  
Old 28-02-2019, 05:20 PM
ajay00 ajay00 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteyzen
This is a very interesting debate and too highly pitched for me. The way I understand it - simply, everything is god, there is no separation. Looked at in this way, there is no difference between Shiva and Vishnu, they are the same thing. Some on here have said I use Shiva for this and Krishna for that, or I worship Shiva but had to switch to Krishna because he doesn`t meditate, or when I worshipped him I stopped meditating because that`s not his way. This is putting limits on God, and its not true, Krishna taught meditation you can have a profound relationship with him through meditation. These are human concepts not divine ones, EVERYTHING is one, worship the aspect of the divine that makes your heart sing the most, because they are all the same thing.

See, the Vedas are the supreme authority in Hinduism, not the epics and puranas. The Vedas state that the Shivalinga is a cosmic pillar of light and there it rests.

In fact one can see even in the Puranic scriptures and epics, Rama, Krishna and Vishnu worshipping the Shivalingam.The deity associated with destruction, armed with a trident and cobra, is called Shankar, and he too is a worshipper of Shivalingam, which he places before him in meditation.

As stated earlier, the Vedas state that the Shivalinga is a cosmic pillar of light. With passage of time, the epics and puranas came up and the tantriks started proclaiming that the Shivalingam actually symbolizes the phallus, in order to support their philosophy of the left handed path of tantra. Shankar is associated with tantra as well.

The later age puranas too started absorbing this myth due to tantric influence. There were even interpolations. The mahabharata for instance, had originally only 25000 verses, but now it has 125000 verses, and slowly a corrupted meaning of the Shivalingam came into some Hindus. This is probably due to the corrupting influence of the Kali Yuga where truth and dharma is reduced to a fraction.

Other prejudices and superstitious practices also crept up, such as sati or widow burning, casteism, untouchability, thuggism or human sacrifice, social and religious subjugation of women which had no basis in the Vedas.

The monotheistic Arya Samaj and Brahmo Samaj, Hindu sects which view only the Vedas as authority, were instrumental in abolishing sati, casteism, untouchability and other vices which had crept up in Hinduism. Similarly Swami Vivekananda in recent times, had emphatically revealed the true nature of the Shivalinga.

Swami Vivekananda on the basis of the Vedas, teaches that the Shivalinga stands for a cosmic pillar of light.

The Prajapita Brahmakumaris too teach that the Shivalinga stands for incorporeal light. The Brahmakumaris is the only spiritual organisation in the world led, administered and taught by women. This is also a far cry from the male dominated nature of Hinduism at present, whereas in the ancient past, female rishis such as Gargeyi and Maitreya were extolled for their enlightenment and wisdom.
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  #25  
Old 01-03-2019, 12:43 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Namaste.

Well, in my case and speaking personally, Lord Krishna was just "too cute" and "too perfect" for me. The stories of his leelas with the Gopis and with his mother Yashoda, just made me sigh and roll my eyes...Krishna just wasn't my type of "God/Deva" whatsoever.

I needed a Great Being who was WAY more dark, mysterious and esoteric than that... a God who was the epitome of raw and powerful masculinity but who could also be wrathful and vengeful in addition to being very sensual and sensitive..and who knew and held ALL the keys to the secrets of the universe...a God who was Ascension personified...and who could put people into ecstatic blissful trance merely by showing up (and showing off)...enter Lord Shiva.

I am not going to get bogged down with the semantics of nomenclature anymore because I am NOT a Brahmakumari follower, ergo I do not believe in what the Brahmakumaris believe in because that is "their thing" and not "my thing". I am just your typical, run of the mill Puranic Shaivite Hindu...nothing more, less or anything special than that...I am ALSO biased...but who cares? I certainly don't, because I refuse to buy into what other people believe in...good luck to THEM I say.

Aum Namah Shivaya
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  #26  
Old 01-03-2019, 03:08 PM
Jainarayan Jainarayan is online now
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That's the beauty of Hinduism.

jāki rahi bhāvanā jaisi
prabhu mūrat dekhi tin taisi

Everyone sees God in his own way.

ekam sat viprāha bahudhā vadanti

You call him Shiva, I call him Vishnu, that person calls her Devi, that person calls him Murugan, Ganesha, or Hanuman. Many names for the One.
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  #27  
Old 01-03-2019, 03:28 PM
ajay00 ajay00 is offline
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Today, just two hours back, I was in an ancient orthodox Shiva temple, discussing with the Brahmins there that the Shivalinga represents a cosmic pillar of light, as per the Vedas, and not a human deity or phallus as per the tantrik interpretation.

They agreed with me and remarked that those who term it as a phallic symbol are foolish and ignorant. They also expressed their concern over the lack of proper knowledge of Hinduism among the so-called Hindus.
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  #28  
Old 01-03-2019, 10:25 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajay00
Today, just two hours back, I was in an ancient orthodox Shiva temple, discussing with the Brahmins there that the Shivalinga represents a cosmic pillar of light, as per the Vedas, and not a human deity or phallus as per the tantrik interpretation.

They agreed with me and remarked that those who term it as a phallic symbol are foolish and ignorant. They also expressed their concern over the lack of proper knowledge of Hinduism among the so-called Hindus.
Namaste.

There is a beauty within Hinduism and a beauty within humanity.

The beauty within humanity is, that the "foolish" do not consider themselves as being "foolish" and they will ALSO be correct.

For you see, each person in this world gets to create their OWN reality (as illusory as it ALL is!)

For example, you just took advice from "Brahmin Priests" after admonishing the caste system in a previous post, didn't you?

Anybody could call me "foolish" and/or "ignorant" and I could rightfully say; that is "according to YOU" or "according to YOUR school/sampradaya" which could be totally different from MINE and according to MY "philosophy" or "school of thought", I am NOT foolish/ignorant! ...Ah the many glorious ways that Kali Yuga can be exploited for one's own spiritual ends eh?

In Hinduism, there is really no definitive truth... There is nothing really... Maybe just the Mahavakyas "Brahman Alone Exists" and "That Thou Art" and everything ELSE has been "made up" to suit an agenda, with every school calling every other school "foolish" and "ignorant". This is how 33 crore of "Gods" came into existence in the FIRST place.

Yes, I am a Tantrika and just like any "persecuted minority" in human society, we can get to say that the reason why others abuse us and persecute us is due to a combination of fear and a lack of education. Isn't entitlement a grand thing?

Yet, when human beings tell you one thing and God tells you the opposite thing, to whom does one listen? Which is MORE important, the knowledge of people or the knowledge of a Deva? I personally subscribe to the latter, even though it has made me very lonely and isolated in my existence...but I also realise that I come into this world alone and depart the same way, regardless.

So, with such a huge population in the world and especially in places like India, people do not care about what others think or say because if they just look around, they are bound to find another who will agree with them anyway, DESPITE having 'other groups who may not because it is all STILL a matter for the individual human EGO...or even a collection of "puffed-up" EGOS who all have a shared agenda.

Basically...and for all intents and purposes, it sorta goes like this...

I am a Shiva Bhakta. I love Lord Shiva and ALL His Divine Leelas. I worship Lord Shiva in the way HE appeared to me...in the way my heart can associate with Him.

Now, if another person says that I am not worshiping Lord Shiva, but I am worshiping Shankar (when to me, they are one and the same thing), that is THEIR opinion and THEIR belief, it is not my DIRECT EXPERIENCE, so whatever they say has absolutely no relevance to me whatsoever.

Then, they may start calling me names like "ignorant" or "foolish" or "not a Hindu" and all I will say to them is "f*** off!" Just like any Aghori or Tantric would do, with impunity because religious tolerance works BOTH ways...You can't expect me to be tolerant of your beliefs when you are totally intolerant of mine, so I am getting in first!

In the end, everybody just leaves everybody else alone to "do their own thing" but criticises them in private...It is the whole reason why Hinduism (as a whole) is such a diverse religion and also why I will NEVER listen to anybody else who only THINKS they know better than I do.

All they will/can do is call me an "ignorant mleccha" and kick me out of their temple while Lord Shiva opens His arms in a full embrace for me and just laughs at them...This is also why He is known by the names of "Bholenath" and "Bhuteshvara". He takes those under His wing, those who society shuns for being "different" and those people whom others fear...Lord Shiva remains totally unperturbed because He understands what this is like....It is another reason why I love him so much.

Aum Namah Shivaya
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  #29  
Old 03-03-2019, 05:41 AM
ajay00 ajay00 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Namaste.

There is a beauty within Hinduism and a beauty within humanity.

The beauty within humanity is, that the "foolish" do not consider themselves as being "foolish" and they will ALSO be correct.

For you see, each person in this world gets to create their OWN reality (as illusory as it ALL is!)

For example, you just took advice from "Brahmin Priests" after admonishing the caste system in a previous post, didn't you?

Casteism has no basis in the Vedas. This is what I implied. Anyone can study the Vedas and become a brahmin priest. There are many now who are doing this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Anybody could call me "foolish" and/or "ignorant" and I could rightfully say; that is "according to YOU" or "according to YOUR school/sampradaya" which could be totally different from MINE and according to MY "philosophy" or "school of thought", I am NOT foolish/ignorant! ...Ah the many glorious ways that Kali Yuga can be exploited for one's own spiritual ends eh?


This is just the brahmins pov aforementioned, and I only stated it here. I have not pointed fingers at anyone.

The Shivalingam, as per the authority of the Vedas, stands for a cosmic pillar of light.

Anything that goes against the Vedic interpretation is rejected and considered as blasphemy and sinful.

For example, it is stated that nonviolence is the greatest virtue (Ahimsa paramo Dharmah). Now if this is misinterpreted as meaning that violence is the greatest virtue in Hinduism, it would be obviously be blasphemous and sinful.


There are definite rights and wrongs in Hinduism.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Yes, I am a Tantrika and just like any "persecuted minority" in human society, we can get to say that the reason why others abuse us and persecute us is due to a combination of fear and a lack of education. Isn't entitlement a grand thing?

Tantra is a legitimate philosophical path in itself, as long as it does not contradict the vedic teachings.

Their philosophy is perfectly ideal for couples. However, there is no need for them to misappropriate the Shivalingam to suit their fancies and imaginary fantasies, as mentioned by Swami Vivekananda himself.

Tantra is one thing, and Shivalingam as a cosmic pillar light, is another. There is no need to mix up the two. Shiva as a self-luminious pillar of light has His own identity. Why do the Tantriks wish to negate that in favour of something else!

Shiva is also known as Bholenath or innocent Lord. Why do the tantriks want to negate an innocent entity of His identity for their own interests!

That would be selfish, cheap and unfair.

So let the Shivalingam be a cosmic pillar of light as per the Vedic teachings, and let tantra be tantra without any misappropriations, and then all is well and good.
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Evil is an extreme manifestation of human unconsciousness. -- Eckhart Tolle
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  #30  
Old 03-03-2019, 10:26 AM
OPVerma OPVerma is offline
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The FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE of HINDUISM is TRUTH & REINCARNATION

The FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE of HINDUISM is TRUTH & REINCARNATION. I find in all these posts the most important component TRUTH to be missing.

WORSHIP of Shiva and Krishna or any other god or goddesses is not the goal of Hinduism but only a means of liberation from the recycle of birth and death. We worship various gods and goddesses to acquire deficient virtues, so that we attain our goal of immortality.

However, By following the path of TRUTHFULNESS Strictly we or any one can achieve the goal of immortality. Soon as I started to follow the Yoga of Truthfulness the desire to worship Krishna followed automatically. All Hindus must understand that the core of Hinduism is TRUTH ( or god Satya Narayan )and the rest follows automatically. No god ( Including Krishna and Shiva ) or goddess ( Kali ) can help one if he is pursuing the path of falsehood, deceit, VIOLENCE, LUST , GREED etc.

Study of scriptures help us in following the path of Truth fullness. So I urge to all Hindus to attach TOP Importance to it.


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