The Modern Angel Hoax

[Evaah]

Yeeeep. Gotta love patriarchal societies.
This is probably also why "God" is perceived as masculine, and why the bible put such an emphasis on all the SONS and FATHERS and MALE prophets and MALE angels... sigh.

There's a theory in my personal path that suggests that humans lost their original connection to the Creator, and in an effort to regain that connection, began projecting human qualities onto the unseen: namely, the Creator, angels, etc. It was the only way they felt they could revive that lost connection. So what happens? They project qualities from their society onto what they felt was appropriate for the unseen at that time... in their case, a patriarchal, dominant, male ruling figure in the sky... along with an army of beautiful, powerful, male angels. Why? Because men at that time were revered, of course! So that's how it is up above, right? Yes, definitely...

[Zoclora]

Originally Posted by Dragonfly1

Well....what makes you think that the Bible or any other 'holy' book, is the truth?.......men wrote it.....how did they know?....many people have had actual experiences in their own lives that gives them proof of evidence of female Angelic beings...how can you dispute that? you can't......reading some book then telling everyone that their beliefs are wrong, is naive...... what makes you think women are 'less' in the eyes of the Divine? some words written by ancient men?
I don't think so....I will trust experience over the words of some human men, written millenia ago....every time.....HOW would you know the things that many people see and experience aren't female Angels, in their experience? Do you have actual proof that 'we' are all wrong?........
In my own experiences Angels come in both male and female persona....for some people the exact Angels can be a totally different sexual orientation to what i experience them as.....Angels come in a form that is comfortable for those they are coming to....whether male or female......Angels are actually beings of light.....they appear in human form for our convenience not theirs, how do I know this........they have come to me, aided me in their pure form..... They don't have actual sexual orientation.....

I am a Divine energy in a human form, and to me Angels are of the Divine, so how does that make me 'above' them? we are equal all in the eyes of the Source....even the disbelievers......everyone.....Your condescending tone in your words does nothing to get your point across.....and I see that you are a woman, stranger still....Do you think you are 'less' because you are a woman?....I certainly don't....
Its 2012..we're not in ancient times now, those books were written thousands of years ago for those times, we have progressed and become truly aware. God has given us the insight to see the Divine how it really is.....you can believe as you wish, (that does not necessarily make it right)...but please don't preach and imply that everyone is insane because they have experienced obviously something that you haven't yet.......

I totaly agree with this. With my experance angels have no sex. Not male or female but do come in one or the other for us.Hell I think some times they may choose one over the other becouse they feel like it. Arial is an example. Alot of people said its a she. And they had experances that it was a she. But she comes to me as a he to help balance out the female energies in the house. But once in a while I will feel him go into a female form. Iv seen bothe. So we shouldnt believe every thing that a person or a group of people have told us in a book that as you can see, changed over the corse of a long time to "fit our needs" and "make more cents in our minds"

And about the charubs? I know this. We have famus painters in my family that desended from others begaing way back. You see a famus painting had a few of them in it. The painter was going to make them into girls, but guess what? The church said "NO! No girls! Only boys!" He he had to do a few "tuch ups"Find it odd they look like girls in a lot of cases? Its becouse back then, weman were mans rugs. We held them up into the light and let them grow and take power. There was no such thing as equalality. Thats why if you read the bible or any book like that, its going to manchen males 100 x more then females.

We really dont know what the real thing had said. But I know this. It held some truth in it. But just as a lession guide to go by. Just like thoughs little stoires of friend ship and stuff, its not going to happen that dromaticly. Its just stating that its bad to lie, bad to steal, bad to do this and this. And that we should no take it as littraly as we are. Thoughs stories are made to tell what may had happen example a grate flood or a grate storm that may had happen in that time prieod. And maybe things that angels had said to us but peobly some was eather lost or miss translated. Just my opeinon.

Bless be<3

[Dragonfly1]

You're mistaken riverslady....I am not angry, that is merely your interpretation of my words because they don't suit your view.....rigid extreme thinking is what has created so many problems in our world....its time to push through your tunnel visioned view of 'how it is', and start to open your mind to greater possibilities not rely on ancient books written for ancient people...Peace.

[Squatchit]

Hiya RiversLady and all

For me, the guise a guide/helper/angel/whatever is secondary to the message they wish to convey. What does it matter if she's garbed as a female angel? I'd rather focus on the message than dismiss her because she's "supposed" to be male.

While I can understand your point seeing how you have taken on board the biblical belief system (and therefore have strict ideas/assumptions of how things should/shouldn't be) you must know you were going to be up for some flack by using words such as 'hoax'.

It's a big wide world and there's a whole host of belief systems. Surely you know this? What works for one, won't work for others.

In my world, guides show up in all shapes/sizes. I've even been taught a valuable lesson by a pebble. What the bible does or doesn't say has no place in my world.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Squatch

[norseman]

Riverslady, all your carefully constructed arguments fall flat when your only point of reference is the bible. You should study the HISTORY of the bible, not just the content. I doubt that you will find a book more translated, more revised, more edited, more subject to additions/deletions than the bible. As a reference book, The Lord of The Rings has more validity !

XX or XY angels ? - suggest you watch the film Dogma.

Originally Posted by RiversLady

Thanks for the opinions. It's crazy that peple are calling things angels that aren't. Why does the general public feel that angels are better or more powerful than humans. I think it weeds out who really read and understood what they were reading in regards to the bible. Thumping it does not equal reading it.

Well, just because I think its wrong doesnt mean I think anyone is crazy. Its cultural. 90% of the west is christian, or at least monotheistic. Whether we are practicing christian or not, it influences us, because its influence is everywhere, in books, stories and in our brains. Even if we are aware of it or not

I do agree that misinterpreting the bible can cause massive problems, especially people who cherry pick rules, or havnt even read it at all, and spout only what people say about it, rather then what it actually SAYS.

THe thing is, we will ALWAYS associate things with the familar. ITs a human trait. Guide/angel/spirit whatever, they are still described as the same general thing, again, misinterpreted or not.

[Holly]

Hey Riverslady,

I will give the bible some credit - it has some good guidelines about living in peace and love, but do you really think its still 100% suited to modern life or modern man? I'm not suggesting we throw away the ten commandments, but I do think you need to bring them into the new age. For example, add; “thou shalt not pirate thy neighbours data!”

The bible has lost a great deal of its original meaning through being repeatedly re-translated, mistranslated and misconstrued, and the original meanings deliberately changed to fit the agenda of the person who'll make money from it! The language is open to interpretation too. The bible is now a bit incomplete and requires some common sense to make effective modern guidelines. That said, do you NEED a book to tell you your morals? Haven't you developed your own?

Originally Posted by RiversLady

When did angels start to become female? I re-read my bible (I do this wheneve someone spouts stuff that I know isn't even alluded to in the famous book) and all angels are male. This is supported by the
Torah and the Quoran. So what gives?

I'm a channel for these 'new age' angels. Theyd be equally at home a the time of Moses as they are in my living room now, though their way of dealing with people must have changed a lot! Two thousand years ago, farming practises were an effective analogy everyone could relate to. Cattle were used for currency and unless you had a severe lack of chickens, coveting your neighbours wife was about the limit of your imagination. Angels have come out of the time of Jesus like we have. People who aren't afraid are now having their very simple picture books replaced with juicy literature.

Angels can be men or women in their own bodies, and in whatever form they visit us. Sometimes if there's a need they can be neither. I've seen the archangels swap gender at will. They tell me it's fun to be one or the other. They and God are all balances of male and female energy, and take male and female bodies. Both polarities are fun to explore.

Angels are here to help you, not frighten you. If knowing they also have a female aspect would frighten you, then they won't tell you! Their desire is to help you, they always give you what you need. Why would they give you irrelevant information that would only worry you? Or WORSE, make you nervous of them?

What I'm digging at is while you're stuck in fear, in your bible, arguing about the truth behind other people's beliefs, you forget there's a whole world of other truth out there. It might contradict yours, yes, but it's still truth. You'll be given the truth that's best for you now, in time, other truths become apparent as we grow. Things are not automatically 'wrong' because we have no experience, or no knowledge of them.

Originally Posted by RiversLady

Ohhhh, it's another new age spirituality thing. Like making the ghost of your dead puppy into a guardian angel because you cannot deal with being alone again. Then writing about it to all the other lonely folks crawling the web looking for spiritual satisfaction. Sure it gives you comfort, but why tie this concept in with angels?

I cringe at this too, only because I think it's terribly saddening that people find it so hard to release their loved ones and loved pets. Transition is part of life and grieving and letting go are important to our health and happiness. Hanging onto your lost pets or lost relatives in this way isn't healthy or wise.

Riverslady, I think its important to understand that other people might not be as aware as you are, and shattering their comfort, or being unkind or destructive won't help them or you. It might frustrate you, but I have to wonder WHY it does. Do you get frustrated when a little kid believes in the tooth fairy? You're living on a world where almost everybody is secretly VERY frightened. Why make them more frightened by removing their comfort? EVERYONE is looking for spiritual satisfaction, and everyone is learning to find it. Would you knock these people down hard, so they feel inadequate and confused, or allow them their illusion for a bit until the wider truth becomes apparent? Do you wish your neighbour happiness or suffering?

Originally Posted by RiversLady

Angels are a special class of beings created by God to serve Him. I will refer to God as a male since this is being written from a Christian point of view. So don't go thinking elsewhere. Angels were used as messengers and delivery beings. If it wasn't important enough for God to talk to you himself, he sent an angel with his word. I wonder why he sent an angel to tell Mary that she was pregnant with his child? Wasn't this important to him? Ah well, it is not for humans to understand the workings of the almighty.

I regularly channel the being responsible for the creation of our universe, so do hundreds of other channels some of whom are on this forum. Its not all business when God comes to chat! God is a wonderful friend, loving, insightful and very helpful. God made the polarities of male and female. Sometimes she comes as Mother, sometimes Father. I've spoken to the collective Godsoul of which our creator is a part. It's male, female and neither. To disallow one of the sexes would be to disown part of his own creation – his own body. If you speak to the Godsoul, (or to Archangel Metatron, who can tell you ALL about God) at length, you'll realise that God would never do that.

Angels are not slaves to God. They are a species like we are, and like us they have free will. All life in this universe does. They serve the highest good of other beings out of unconditional love for them, their time and effort are given for free, willingly. They understand that all life is ultimately one with God. By helping their less aware brothers and sisters, they are bringing sparks of God back to full awareness. They are not a class of subservient creatures created to do God's will. They were created out of enormous love, like all species of life. They will never refuse if you ask for help – but that doesn't mean they are incapable. If their help wasn't given with free will, would YOU want their help at all? I wouldn't. I'm not a slave driver, I would set my slaves free. What about you?

Originally Posted by RiversLady

The use of angels went into sharp decline after they found the daughters of Adam to be "really hot babes" and started to take frequent leaves of abscence from heaven to start families with them. God frowned upon this practise, even though he himself was later to do the same thing with Mary. But I degress. There is no mention anywhere in any of the sacred texts a mention of a female angel. For whatever reason, God never made any.

Hmm, everyone loves a hypocrite for a God, right? What makes you think the MALE writers of the bible would include a powerful, beautiful and loving female beings? Feminine power was quashed very early by the patriarchal society, which Christianity is. I think you're making the mistake of assuming everyone who writes spiritual material is the very core of honesty, compassion and love and equal rights! If they'd had equal rights back then, the bible writers would have had to wash their OWN socks, which explains it all as far as I can see!

I think you posted this in the hope of feeling like you have it all figured out. Generally speaking, those people who DO have it all figured out, are unlikely to tell you so unless you ask, or unless their desire is to offer the information to help others. When you are comfortable with your own truth, it doesn't need to be spoken in order to define yourself. I'm not criticising you at all, after all, I'm here too, and for what purpose YOU can decide. What I'm digging at is I think you're simply regurgitating what you've been told is true – and if I've read your language right, I don't think you really believe half of this. I think you're asking a question more than making a statement, to the tune of 'why doesn't anyone else SEE what I see?? Am I wrong? I'm scared to be wrong.'

I don't think you're wondering why Mary wasn't important to her God. I think you're more concerned that YOU'RE not important. I think if God knocked on your psychic door and asked to speak to you, you'd run in fear and hide. Like so many others you'd believe you aren't important or good enough to be spoken to. Many people follow the bible because they want to be close to God, but they're too afraid of his anger to try directly. By going through the beliefs of others, you absolve yourself of responsibility.

Originally Posted by RiversLady

In pre-Christian days, there were flying femme fatales who were known as Harpys. They fit the bill by having wings, but angelic they were not. Then there were some writings about jinns who could be female, but again nice they were not. So how did it come to pass that Angels were turned into women? Dress could be one factor. Angels are depicted in murals has wearing long flowing robes that more modern people thought looked like dresses. Long flowing hair was also a sign of the feminine. Moral
modern man couldn't very well say that angels were cross dressers, so hey those angels are really women! Cherubs too are only depicted as little boys. Knowing the taste some famous painters had about young boys this was an obvious progression in glorifying the subject matter. Naked, chubby, little boys with wings that couldn't provide enough lift to fly a sparrow were all the rage and perhaps a kind of code used to tell certain of the faithful what was really going on in a certain house of worship. But no girls allowed.

Why do you find the idea of a woman angel so upsetting? You know what happens when too many boys get together, nothing ever gets done and the conversation digresses into who's the bigger man! How do you expect angels to understand the dynamics between men and women, which at an instinctual level for human beings, is about 90% of our brainspace...without having direct experience of the opposite sex themselves?! When you ask them if your lover is worth being with do they say cluelessly 'well I don't know actually I don't know any women and I'm not allowed to have sex...what do you think??' Of course not :P

Angels aren't a race of hunky armour clad blokes, or heaven would have no socks left, everybody would be eating pizza every night, nobody would ever tidy up and the lads would surely resort to the aforementioned practises with other boys just for something to do with their fingers!

And supporting arguments about one set of myths via another set of myths is kind of counterproductive to discovering absolute truth!

Originally Posted by RiversLady

Another important point about turning your aunt Sylvia into an angel at her passing is that it diminishes her humanity quite a bit. Man was made BETTER than angels. I found reference to one angel getting so angry about this that he went on a tear and tried to take over heaven. We all know how that worked out. The most beautiful angel of light was given his own place and now invites all those who do bad things to take up residency there.

Yes, and if you have a good long chat to Lucifer (which is only one of his names), you'll realise he's actually the archangel who balances the creation by specialising in resolving fear and bringing sparks of God back to realisation of their divinity. I appreciate that'll sound like gibberish to you, but I do suggest you give speaking to one or more of these angels a try before you draw too many conclusions. Get into regular meditation, and ask to speak to archangels Metatron or Sandalphon. Both are lovely, and if it'll benefit you they'll pay you a visit. Alternatively, find yourself a channel who'll work with them.

Originally Posted by RiversLady

Don't fall for the new and improved versions of angels. Make Mr. Twitchy into a guardian spirit or helper if you must keep his soul around. But don't call him an angel. And don't plan on becoming one yourself if you were human in this incarnation. That means you would go backwards in spiritual growth. Instead realize that you are at the top right now.

Do you honestly believe that humankind is at the very pinnacle of spiritual development? If ego, cruelty, rape, emotional and physical abuse, warmongering, selfishness, widespread starvation, deprivation, homelessness, torture, separation from God, exclusivity, bribery, manipulation, child abuse, the mass murder of animals for food, humans for ego...if nuclear and biochemical warfare coordinated under the banner of 'they attacked us first' and the endless propagation of a slave world where living light forms (us!) are expected to work like slaves for paper credits is the pinnacle of spiritual development, then I think you need to open both eyes wide and take a good long look at this world, the universe is in trouble if this is the be-all and end-all of awareness.

I'd like to draw your attention to the little children in Africa who haven't got the strength to move, who look like a bag of bones, whose mothers are HIV positive, who will be orphans before they're three. IF they live that long. Do you think archangel Michael, or Raphael, or Azrael, who comes to collect those starving children when they mercifully pass, would allow this horror if it wasn't for the highest good of the souls involved? D you think HUMANS allow it for the highest good, or because we can't be bothered to deal with it, or our limiting beliefs and incapability to show compassion mean fixing it is just too much trouble for us?

When those starved children finally die, Archangel Azrael comes to collect the rest of their being. By the time they're in his arms, they're not just a limp little body, which is upsetting enough. They're a living, conscious being that just ended a journey in very distressing circumstances. They've been through massive suffering. They're very frightened, confused, upset, in need of comfort, reassurance and emotional recovery. Azrael carries them to the other side without absolutely no disapproval or judgement - only sadness.

Imagine holding that baby, which is asking you why, why, and drowning you in its fear and anger, and it's feelings of helplessness and injustice too. Even little kids understand that nobody came to help them. What did they do wrong to have been abandoned like this?

Azrael knows he'll hold hundreds more in the same way today. What will he tell those little childrens souls, when crying in his arms they ask, 'why didn't you stop them!' or 'why didn't anyone help me?' He doesn't get angry with us even then. Would you be angry?

Do you wonder Azrael cries? He does, often. Do you know any human beings who have the love and strength to do what he does? Do you still feel we're the most spiritually developed beings?

Do you still feel above Azrael now I've told you this?

Holly, you seem as passionate about Angel rights as I am. I like that

[Holly]

Trieah... I am, yes I've met quite a few different ET beings now, not all angels, and if I didn't consider us all to be the same source and on the same level, that wouldn't have happened. I don't think it'll happen to the population at large (and it really needs to!) until people get past ideas like this.

I wasn't angry or upset or anything, I just thought it might help to have another perspective thrown in there for consideration. I think anyone who's known an angel fairly well would say they aren't humankinds lackeys!

I'd like to draw your attention to the little children in Africa who haven't got the strength to move, who look like a bag of bones, whose mothers are HIV positive, who will be orphans before they're three. IF they live that long. Do you think archangel Michael, or Raphael, or Azrael, who comes to collect those starving children when they mercifully pass, would allow this horror if it wasn't for the highest good of the souls involved? D you think HUMANS allow it for the highest good, or because we can't be bothered to deal with it, or our limiting beliefs and incapability to show compassion mean fixing it is just too much trouble for us?

When those starved children finally die, Archangel Azrael comes to collect the rest of their being. By the time they're in his arms, they're not just a limp little body, which is upsetting enough. They're a living, conscious being that just ended a journey in very distressing circumstances. They've been through massive suffering. They're very frightened, confused, upset, in need of comfort, reassurance and emotional recovery. Azrael carries them to the other side without absolutely no disapproval or judgement - only sadness.

Imagine holding that baby, which is asking you why, why, and drowning you in its fear and anger, and it's feelings of helplessness and injustice too. Even little kids understand that nobody came to help them. What did they do wrong to have been abandoned like this?

I have tears running down my face after reading this particular part. Sure puts things into perspective when I am moaning about my day.
Thank you so much for your post. I enjoyed this very much Holly.

Love & Light to you