??? hunting, good or bad ???

[Thunder Bow]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

animals hunt
can humans be more than animals?

Humans are a hunting gathering primate. Thus we are an animal.

[Thunder Bow]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Hunting has nothing to do with spirituality.
Compassion has everything to do with spirituality!

You are very wrong here. Hunting Buffalo was a very important part of Plains Indian Spirituality! Are you claiming these people were not "Spiritual"??

[Thunder Bow]

Originally Posted by Pagandell

What has hunting got to do with spirituality
Or am I missing out on something here ...........

Hunting is a very important part of Native American Spirituality. This this topic is very important part of spirituality for my people.

[CrystalSong]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

That sounds like a meat-eaters 'conscience comforting' rationale.
A variation on the 'vegans kill carrots, therefore I can kill cows with a clear conscience' argument.

Plants are alive as an extension of the Earth Soul, but they don't have individualised souls as animals do.
A measure of consciousness, but nothing akin to that of an animal. (And the purpose, the Service, of the Plant Kingdom is beautify the earth and provide sustenance for the Human and Animal Kingdoms.)

Animals have the full range of emotions, the same as we do, only lacking the medium to express it in language we humans can understand. Though surely any thinking, aware person can comprehend their fear, pain and similar love of life.

We 'must' consume animals? There is no must. And certainly no 'must' that we should hunt them for sport or prowess.

Well as an animal whisperer and tree whisperer I can assure you that you are mistaken, plants and trees are very conscious, capable of emotion, love, fear and great patience among other things. They are also, at least in the case of tree's, very long lived and great observers and have much accumulated wisdom and are willing to teach those that can hear them.
If you don't know that and can not communicate telepathically with both kingdoms then what can I say?

Saying that plants purpose and service is to beautifully the earth and provide sustenance, reminds me a lot of the rationale used to support slavery. After all if we put a couple layers between our humanity and the object we wish to diminish so we can use it guilt free for our purposes then we can justify anything we do to it right? After all it is ' Less Than' what we claim ourselves to be therefore we have dominion over it.
But here's the thing, claiming a black man is less than human and basically an animal therefore suitable as a beast of burden and writing that into the law of a nation still doesn't make it so. It just means we are deluding ourselves to the actual truth, being self deceptive deliberately because its convenient.
The same with the plant kingdom and frankly the crystal kingdom.
Defining them as less conscious or not conscious doesn't change the reality of their consciousness, and not being able to perceive their consciousness and interact with them is not a judgment on them - but it is on us - it is we who are not being conscious.
How's that for a table turn ?

So I reiterate - it is better to hold all forms of life and consciousness with Respect and Reverence even if we must eat them to live ourselves, and that means taking a moment to appreciate it and thank it for giving of its physical body to us. Just occasionally thinking about it intellectually now and then is not being truly reverent. Life lived with gratitude and reverence is a life lived spiritually and in touch with the flow of all life and all beings in it.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Thunder Bow

You are very wrong here. Hunting Buffalo was a very important part of Plains Indian Spirituality! Are you claiming these people were not "Spiritual"??

Was ...

Spiritual evolution - the old ways belong in the past.
Always man must seek a better, higher way.

Killing and the shedding of innocent blood can never be 'spiritual'.
And saying 'thank you' does not make it right.

[CrystalSong]

Aren't we the slap down judgmental one today?

This is YOUR ethic, no need to push it on others who have and are entitled to their own ethic.

I grew up with Native Americans and are familiar with how they hold animals in great reverence and consider them their brothers and sisters, the same for the plant and tree kingdom. Many of them STILL retain this quality despite industrialization and the general desensitization to the natural world that people living in the cities are born into.
You don't think trees have sentienc3e, yet the Natives call them the Standing Peoples, as if they were a tribe. And they are.
There is a great irony when one claims to be Conscious and Spirituality connected and yet thinks trees aren't conscious. It tends to immediately disqualify any claim of higher level of Consciousness due to the sheer unconsciousness displayed.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by CrystalSong

Well as an animal whisperer and tree whisperer I can assure you that you are mistaken, plants and trees are very conscious, capable of emotion, love, fear and great patience amount other things. They are also at least into eh case of tree's very long lived and great observers and have much accumulated wisdom and are willing to teach those that can hear them.
If you don't know that and can not communicate telepathically with both kingdoms then what can I say?

Saying that plants purpose and service is to beautifully the earth and provide sustenance, reminds me a lot of the rationale used to support slavery. After all if we put a couple layers between our humanity and the object we wish to diminish we can justify anything we do to it right? After all it is ' Less Than' what we claim ourselves to be therefore we have dominion over it. But here's the thing, claiming a black man is less than human and basically an animal therefore suitable as a beast of burden and writing that into eh law doesn't make it so. It just means we are deluding ourselves tot eh actual truth. The same with the plant kingdom and frankly the crystal kingdom.
Defining them as less conscious or not conscious doesn't change the reality, and not being able to perceive their consciousness and interact with them is not a judgment on them - but it is on us - it is we who are not being conscious.
How's that for a table turn ?

So I reiterate - it is better to hold all forms of life and consciousness with Respect and Reverence even if we must eat them to live ourselves, and that means taking a moment to appreciate it and thank it for giving of its physical body to us. Just occasionally thinking about it intellectually now and then is not being truly reverent. Life lived with gratitude and reverence is a life lived spiritually and in touch with the flow of all life and all beings in it.

Big talk, but do you live by it?

Are you fruitarian? Because you should be after all that. To teach one thing, but not live by it, that is hypocrisy...

What would you say to a cannibal? If eating animal flesh is 'part of the flow', then by the same criteria eating human flesh would be similarly so, no more or less morally impure.

And what's this??? You are drawing a parallel between eating plants and participation in the slave trade?!! Many are going to find that incredibly offensive....

You're an "animal whisperer"? And a "tree whisperer"? Self-appointed or proclaimed?

Animal whispering? No need for that, just leave the slaughterhouse doors open. Let the animals show us how willing they are to have their throats slit, so spiritually regressed people can gorge themselves on dead flesh.

[Thunder Bow]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Was ...

Spiritual evolution - the old ways belong in the past.
Always man must seek a better, higher way.

Killing and the shedding of innocent blood can never be 'spiritual'.
And saying 'thank you' does not make it right.

I would call what you posted as Spiritual Reverse Evolution. You are going spiritually backwards. Humans naturally develop a deep spiritual connection to the things that sustain their life, and their way of life. Those who hunted and gathered from the environment that they lived in, developed a natural deep spiritual connection to the animals and plants that they depended on, for their very survival. They had an natural deep spiritual connection to the environment they lived in. Man and the beings they hunted, lived in harmony for 1000s of years.

Now, let us look what Reverse Spiritual Evolution brought us. It brought us mass extinction of many of many different animal species. This is a level of extinction that never happened in all of human history. Why? It is because we do not have a deep spiritual connection to other life anymore. We have NO spiritual connection to our Earth and the animals that we still depend on for our very survival. To modern man the Earth is something to control and own. This happened because we use money to buy things at a store that came from far away places. For the all things we need. Thus we have come spiritually disconnected our natural environment, the animals, and the Earth.

Trophy Hunting is a result of this new spiritual way. So is all the habitat loss that lead to the mass extinction of many animal species. To us the natural environment has become a playground to control and own, and play in. What you posted is very arrogant. Thus now our natural environment is suffering greatly, and all the animals in it as well.

Thus the "Killing and the shedding of innocent blood" is now chronic and epidemic. This is due to the fact that we use money to get our food, shelter and clothing. If you want to stop this, then stop being so Spiritually Arrogant. A Hunting and Gathering based Spirituality is the only to end this killing you speak of.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Thunder Bow

I would call what you posted as Spiritual Reverse Evolution. You are going spiritually backwards. Humans naturally develop a deep spiritual connection to the things that sustain their life, and their way of life. Those who hunted and gathered from the environment that they lived in, developed a natural deep spiritual connection to the animals and plants that they depended on, for their very survival. They had an natural deep spiritual connection to the environment they lived in. Man and the beings they hunted, lived in harmony for 1000s of years.

Now, let us look what Reverse Spiritual Evolution brought us. It brought us mass extinction of many of many different animal species. This is a level of extinction that never happened in all of human history. Why? It is because we do not have a deep spiritual connection to other life anymore. We have NO spiritual connection to our Earth and the animals that we still depend on for our very survival. To us the Earth is something to control and own. This happened because we use money to buy things at a store that came from far away places. For the all things we need. Thus we have come spiritually disconnected our natural environment, the animals, and the Earth.

Trophy Hunting is a result of this new spiritual way. So is all the habitat loss that lead to the mass extinction of many animal species. To us the natural environment has become a playground to control and own, and play in. What you posted is very arrogant Thus now our natural environment is suffering greatly, and all the animals in it as well.

Thus the "Killing and the shedding of innocent blood" is now chronic and epidemic. This is due to the fact that we use money to get our food, shelter and clothing. If you want to stop this, then stop being so Spiritually Arrogant. A Hunting and Gathering based Spirituality is the only to end this killing you speak of.

I would remind you, this is NOT the Native American section.

Your beliefs are your beliefs. Your view of 'revering' things yet having no qualms about killing them in not a 'spirituality' I subscribe to, nor would ever do so.

Spiritually arrogant? Your ancestors hunted and the animals RAN from you, ran in terror, because they were afraid of you and didn't want to die.

And think about what you are saying.
Your ancestors were nomadic. They pitched their wigwams, stayed for a season, then moved on. The area of their lands was substantial. Hunted animal species could recover in the interim.
Hunter-gathering is the answer? A fatal flaw in your argument. There weren't over seven billion of them!!! (Ten billion by 2050) If the world adopted your ideal, the Animal Kingdom would be wiped out within a month.

[Thunder Bow]

Originally Posted by CrystalSong

Aren't we the slap down judgmental one today?

This is YOUR ethic, no need to push it on others who have and are entitled to their own ethic.

I grew up with Native Americans and are familiar with how they hold animals in great reverence and consider them their brothers and sisters, the same for the plant and tree kingdom. Many of them STILL retain this quality despite industrialization and the general desensitization to the natural world that people living in the cities are born into.
You don't think trees have sentienc3e, yet the Natives call them the Standing Peoples, as if they were a tribe. And they are.
There is a great irony when one claims to be Conscious and Spirituality connected and yet thinks trees aren't conscious. It tends to immediately disqualify any claim of higher level of Consciousness due to the sheer unconsciousness displayed.

This guy is very Arrogant as most Biligana are. They invaded our world, killed almost every living being, then come and tell us that our Spirituality is wrong. Now this one comes along and tell us that killing any animal is wrong! What Gall !