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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Judaism

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  #11  
Old 09-11-2010, 04:15 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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I was talking with someone on another thread about how the truth will set you free. The truth for Jews doesn't mean Jesus saves (LOL...no offense!). Though if Jesus is a beacon for you then that's a fine thing.

But there is still a deep meaning there. When יוחנן המטביל (Yochanan ha-matbil, or John the Baptist) Correction: ישוע or Yeshua ben Yosef (Jesus) said the truth will set you free, he was referring to the words of Rabbi Shimon ben Gamliel: "The world continues to exist because of three things: justice, truth, and peace.

So the Truth (the Word...and knowing God) will set you free to pursue peace and justice. And that resonates for Jews and hopefully for all other people as well. We have to truly know God, and the change has to take place in our own hearts first, before we can truly see God in others.

As long as we remember there are many paths to God...then we understand that we will all get there one day.

Peace & blessings,
7L

Last edited by 7luminaries : 09-11-2010 at 07:05 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-11-2010, 06:32 PM
RabbiO RabbiO is offline
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7L -

The truth will set you free is a quote attributed not to the immerser but to Jesus in the gospel according to John. Whether Jesus was referring to Shimon's words, Shimon living contemporaneously with him, is conjecture, but possible.

The quintessential quote regarding G-d in the Tanakh is from Isaiah -
כִּי לֹא מַחְשְׁבוֹתַי מַחְשְׁבוֹתֵיכֶם, וְלֹא דַרְכֵיכֶם דְּרָכָי--נְאֻם,ה
For My ways are not your ways, and My thoughts are not your thoughts, says Adonai.

I was uncertain how you meant the phrase "know G-d." If you meant it as in being able to walk with G-d, know of G-d, experience G-d, I would not disagree. If you meant it as understanding G-d, then I would respectfully have to disagree.

Of course, I agree there are many paths and, as you are well aware and I have mentioned in the past, our tradition teaches that the righteous of all nations have a share in the world to come.

B'shalom,

Peter
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  #13  
Old 09-11-2010, 07:00 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RabbiO
7L -

The truth will set you free is a quote attributed not to the immerser but to Jesus in the gospel according to John. Whether Jesus was referring to Shimon's words, Shimon living contemporaneously with him, is conjecture, but possible.

The quintessential quote regarding G-d in the Tanakh is from Isaiah -
כִּי לֹא מַחְשְׁבוֹתַי מַחְשְׁבוֹתֵיכֶם, וְלֹא דַרְכֵיכֶם דְּרָכָי--נְאֻם,ה
For My ways are not your ways, and My thoughts are not your thoughts, says Adonai.

I was uncertain how you meant the phrase "know G-d." If you meant it as in being able to walk with G-d, know of G-d, experience G-d, I would not disagree. If you meant it as understanding G-d, then I would respectfully have to disagree.

Of course, I agree there are many paths and, as you are well aware and I have mentioned in the past, our tradition teaches that the righteous of all nations have a share in the world to come.

B'shalom,

Peter

Oops, thanks RabbiO...it was in John but not the John I thought... it was the other guy, Y'shua...LOL...
A Christian scholar I am not...LOL...

Yes I always thought it was definitely a reference to Gamliel...and I still think to Jews it would speak to social justice and right action, etc., whether then or now. The rest of what it may mean to Christians doesn't apply for me but the first part still would. And I think this speaks to the 2 "common" uses of the phrase...one where Truth = God (via the Word) and one for Christians where Jesus is part of this Truth. I'll have to defer to them though. That's just my sense of it.

On your other point, I meant know God in the usual sense, yes. More as in "know of" i.e, recognition of God, finding your way with God , and so forth.

I mentioned the "many paths" because I assumed Caretaker was not Jewish...and just wanted to stress that we recognise other paths to God but don't feel the need to convert or merge with other traditions...just in case he/she was wondering

L'Shalom,
7L
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  #14  
Old 09-11-2010, 07:13 PM
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I have no interest in converting anyone, nor do I follow any religion that one can convert too. I have no need for organized religion. I merely recognize Jesus as a Spiritual Teacher as were many, many, individuals from all cultures. I do believe that we should put the religion aside when discussing with others and get to the grass roots of humanities problems.

The thing we seem not to realize is that we are one nation, The Human Nation. We have all these separators and dividers from the true reality of our unity and the further this goes the more chaos and destruction is caused. Religiously I have nothing to say, but spiritually and morally their is much to be said to the way we treat one another on the big scale.
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  #15  
Old 09-11-2010, 07:31 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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We can and do (many of us) realise that we are all one human nation. That can (and should) coexist peacefully with the knowledge that we all come from somewhere and we all have traditions and perspectives that can and should be honoured. There is no irreconcilable difference here of necessity...and if it exists de facto, then it is a humanly created obstacle (turning differences into biases or barriers) and is ultimately one that can be transcended or reconciled.

We can all "come as we are"...I don't think anyone has to leave who or what they are or where they came from behind. You can expand your heart and your perspective and realise that there are many paths to God. And that acknowledges a fundamental reality. We all need to find our own path. And without acknowledging our origins and our right to be as we are for who we are, how can ever accept others as they are?

I think the "answer" is not to remove all differences...diversity is a strength, after all...
Instead, it is to accept ourselves and then each other...accept the differences and honour and respect them. At the core, after all, we are all members of the human race. But we don't have to become generic in order to come to this place of tolerance. After all, who decides what we will or should be or look like if we all have to be or look alike?

Organised religion may be a barrier or a separator...or, it may not. The Truth can be found anywhere...and the depth and richness of tradition, of spirituality, of the variety of paths an individual may take cannot be confined by the term religion...
However, it's also true that the term religion and concept of religion is not one that we should denigrate...
In its highest sense, it is one with your spirituality. As with many things, it all depends on your perspective.

Peace,
7L
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  #16  
Old 11-11-2010, 07:38 PM
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Yes, however, when we define a human being by his/her religion we often overlook the true reality of their humanity, the fact that they are also human and also spirit. We consider this guy to be a Hebrew, that other guy to be a Christian and that guy to be a Hindu. But in truth they are all human and all spirit. And this is more important then what religion you follow. Spirituality and the Laws of Spirit we follow are very important to the growing of a human spirit(being) but when looking at another person they are so much more then their proclaimed religion. They are one of God-divine's children just as you are and should be treated as such. Kings amongst Kings.

Peace with all things is the path to God's mind. Acceptance of the what is. Moving ever forward into the future with hopeful(insightful) eyes.
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  #17  
Old 12-11-2010, 01:32 AM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Try not to limit yourself in the way you view others. You're not fully taking my meaning. Just because one comes from a particular tradition or background does not mean we "define a human being by his/her religion". I don't do that. Do you? If so perhaps you shouldn't, LOL...

Nor do I say that because one has walked a particular path or two (via various traditions) on his or her spiritual path, that their journey has not led them to Truth or that they are narrow minded. Mystics and earnest seekers come from all traditions...tolerance is not limited to those who do not align with a spiritual tradition (LOL). Tolerance and respect, like people, come in all shapes and sizes..and from all backgrounds and traditions.

You may wish to avoid getting caught up in the term or idea of "religion" if you see tradition only as a divisive force. For mystics and for anyone who is truly seeking, your tradition is your stepping stone to the Divine. It is as deep, evocative, and insightful as any other path...because one may take any path to God, and if the heart is true and the desire is strong, you will find your way.

Peace,
7L
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  #18  
Old 12-11-2010, 02:03 AM
Shim
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7luminaries your LOL... get to me every time. LOL
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  #19  
Old 12-11-2010, 03:17 AM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Happy to oblige Shim! Must sleep before responding further...to anything
Cheers!
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  #20  
Old 12-11-2010, 11:50 PM
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Actually my friend I understand your statements perfectly and I wasn't intending to refute what you say with what I said merely trying to explain what I meant as well as add to the growing path we are sharing together. A set of guidelines that work harmoniously together in my opinion. What you say and what I say do not clash but merely running off each other.
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