Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Christianity

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 11-10-2019, 08:17 PM
Che Lazou
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
'It is basically the same idea as the Buddhist idea that all attachments cause suffering. In other words, all attachments are a sin '


Not really
In Buddhism the idea of ' Sin ' has no place.
The Buddha taught that it is attachment to desire that causes Dukkha, the word suffering doesn't exist.. Stressfulness is Dukkha.


There are Three kinds of Dukkha,

"There are these three forms of stressfulness, my friend: the stressfulness of pain, the stressfulness of fabrication, the stressfulness of change. These are the three forms of stressfulness."

SN 38.14

...
Thank you Sky, that really does clear something up for me that I was having trouble with. One of the things I am realising is that trying to find the lowest common denominator really does take away from individual teachings or corrupt them. Different teachings are different and integrating them creates something different again. It really is quite arrogant to think you can create your own teachings, but on the other hand we all have our own individual life experiences and learn from one another. "Each one teach one" I believe is a saying, though I don't know its source. I really do struggle with all these teachers, not everything is the same, and not everything is on the level. Having said that, in some ways I have been blessed to be brought up without religion in so far as that is possible, but perhaps that is really an arrogant thing to say. Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-10-2019, 11:25 PM
sentient sentient is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,243
  sentient's Avatar
I have great respect for the old ways Russian Orthodox Church.

From indigenous perspective; - since our Church still is the forest – the Orthodox prayer-rooms blended in well:
http://haukiniementsasouna.net/wp-co...tissarinen.jpg

Sacred sites were not destroyed and “Spirit Trees” were not cut down, instead Holy Icons were placed on them (& that tree is the "Guardian" i.e Spirit Tree of the Bear):
https://anothercity.org/wp-content/u...-2-400x242.png

No priest high on pulpit delivering a sermon that we are destined to hell, because of our beliefs, instead there was this inclusion of just joining in the singing and chanting.

How should I say this, in the body of Christ (the Orthodox Church is) and by the Grace of Holy Spirit – there was no need to defend your territorial belief system grounds …. boundaries.

*
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-10-2019, 04:21 AM
sentient sentient is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,243
  sentient's Avatar
Even though the absolute horrors followed with the Lutheran Church, so I wasn’t brought up in the Orthodox community, - still I felt my grandparents & parents never left, never turned their backs on this embodiment of Christ & I can’t watch these without becoming devotional:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmv0_e4DD7s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7vvPXz-Qes

*
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-10-2019, 04:26 AM
Dodsmeister777 Dodsmeister777 is offline
Newbie ;)
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 10
 
True christianity

Quote:
Originally Posted by candyfloss28
I'm thinking about it as it is not working for me.

Your statement that Christisnity isn't working for you, shows that you are in it for the wrong reason. Christianity is not what Christ can do for us to make our life better. Thats very selfish.

Christianity is about falling in love with Jesus. I am sorry but you have been badly misguided
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-10-2019, 07:20 AM
sky sky is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,533
  sky's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodsmeister777
Your statement that Christisnity isn't working for you, shows that you are in it for the wrong reason. Christianity is not what Christ can do for us to make our life better. Thats very selfish.

Christianity is about falling in love with Jesus. I am sorry but you have been badly misguided





' Christianity is not what Christ can do for us to make our life better '


Every Religion is followed to seek returns in one way or other, Christianity included.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-10-2019, 08:07 AM
sky sky is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,533
  sky's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Che Lazou
Thank you Sky, that really does clear something up for me that I was having trouble with. One of the things I am realising is that trying to find the lowest common denominator really does take away from individual teachings or corrupt them. Different teachings are different and integrating them creates something different again. It really is quite arrogant to think you can create your own teachings, but on the other hand we all have our own individual life experiences and learn from one another. "Each one teach one" I believe is a saying, though I don't know its source. I really do struggle with all these teachers, not everything is the same, and not everything is on the level. Having said that, in some ways I have been blessed to be brought up without religion in so far as that is possible, but perhaps that is really an arrogant thing to say. Thank you.



Buddhism like Christianity has been corrupted over time and it is difficult sometimes to work out ' what's what ', as you said ' life's experiences ' are a good teacher.

I personally always refer to the Pali Canon it is the most complete extant early Buddhist Canon available, although sometimes I find some Suttas hard to grasp so I put them to one side and move on, somewhere along the line the ' Penny drops '.

Your very lucky to have been brought up Religion Free as you have a big empty space, free of Dogma and it's baggage, you can fill your space with your own wisdom
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-10-2019, 11:48 AM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,447
  Still_Waters's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by candyfloss28
It is the whole hell and damnation I can't get my head around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
You can't get your head around it because it doesn't exist and subconsciously you know this.

Jesus without baggage might be suitable for you CF

I was raised Roman Catholic and, eventually, I realized that quotes attributed to Jesus regarding hell and damnation (for example, Matthew 25:46) were probably never spoken by Jesus as they are clearly inconsistent with the rest of His teachings. It was most likely inserted by some hell-and-damnation, fear-mongering scribe somewhere between Jesus' earthly presence and now.

I agree with sky123 on this point. Something intuitively seems wrong with "hell and damnation" and, as sky123 said, "subconsciously you know this".

NOTE: For what it's worth, there are a significant number of people who feel that at least some sayings attributed to Jesus were not actually spoken by Him. A "Jesus Seminar" was formed as recently as 1985 and lasted for 30 years until 2005. It was formed specifically to analyze the sayings of Jesus with specific emphasis on assessing what was probably spoken to him and what was not. The Jesus Seminar was a group of about 50 critical Biblical scholars and 100 laymen founded in 1985 by Robert Funk that originated under the auspices of the Westar Institute.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-10-2019, 03:18 PM
sky sky is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,533
  sky's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
I was raised Roman Catholic and, eventually, I realized that quotes attributed to Jesus regarding hell and damnation (for example, Matthew 25:46) were probably never spoken by Jesus as they are clearly inconsistent with the rest of His teachings. It was most likely inserted by some hell-and-damnation, fear-mongering scribe somewhere between Jesus' earthly presence and now.

I agree with sky123 on this point. Something intuitively seems wrong with "hell and damnation" and, as sky123 said, "subconsciously you know this".

NOTE: For what it's worth, there are a significant number of people who feel that at least some sayings attributed to Jesus were not actually spoken by Him. A "Jesus Seminar" was formed as recently as 1985 and lasted for 30 years until 2005. It was formed specifically to analyze the sayings of Jesus with specific emphasis on assessing what was probably spoken to him and what was not. The Jesus Seminar was a group of about 50 critical Biblical scholars and 100 laymen founded in 1985 by Robert Funk that originated under the auspices of the Westar Institute.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar


Thanks for the Link SW, it's veryyyyyyyy interesting
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-10-2019, 04:41 PM
Che Lazou
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
I was raised Roman Catholic and, eventually, I realized that quotes attributed to Jesus regarding hell and damnation (for example, Matthew 25:46) were probably never spoken by Jesus as they are clearly inconsistent with the rest of His teachings. It was most likely inserted by some hell-and-damnation, fear-mongering scribe somewhere between Jesus' earthly presence and now.

I agree with sky123 on this point. Something intuitively seems wrong with "hell and damnation" and, as sky123 said, "subconsciously you know this".

NOTE: For what it's worth, there are a significant number of people who feel that at least some sayings attributed to Jesus were not actually spoken by Him. A "Jesus Seminar" was formed as recently as 1985 and lasted for 30 years until 2005. It was formed specifically to analyze the sayings of Jesus with specific emphasis on assessing what was probably spoken to him and what was not. The Jesus Seminar was a group of about 50 critical Biblical scholars and 100 laymen founded in 1985 by Robert Funk that originated under the auspices of the Westar Institute.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar
I have personally experienced hell during psychotic schizophrenic episodes, and that hell can exist, I have no doubt. Indeed if one believes that every possibility exists within the multi-verse, then there are infinite hells, each of our own making.

I don't know what the Roman Catholics preach, but as I said, as I understand it, entering into hell is the result of one's own choices taking one away from God and love, not a punishment and by realigning ourselves towards God and love we can escape hell even after death.

This does seem at odds with Mathew 25:46 which the King James Version states as "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

It may well be that rather than being a new insertion into the Gospel, it is merely a mistranslation. My Koanic Greek is not very good, so I couldn't tell you the original words, but certainly many words in Greek have multiple meanings and nuances that can be lost or distorted by translations.

I am quite sure that hell need not be eternal for any soul in Orthodox Christianity, and indeed this is one of the purposes of praying for the dead.

How this squares with Mathew 25:46 you will have to ask a priest or theologian.

But my main point is that the existence of hell or hells themselves does not seem to me to be out of line with the rest of Jesus' teachings.

Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-10-2019, 08:10 PM
davidmartin davidmartin is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,082
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by candyfloss28
It is the whole hell and damnation I can't get my head around.

Candy yes me too, I decided to research it myself. The end result was I don't believe Jesus believed in this but that some sections of the early church did, and others didn't. I just can't accept the idea

you can see this for yourself, gospel of John - no hell. Mark, 1 single reference, to Matthew which is 90% of the references. All the gospels came from different church branches, that is the key to making sense of this
Paul also never mentions hell, and it's obvious why... (his 'Judaiser' opponents were strong believers in it). Book of Revelation is 'Judaiser' scripture
The old testament also has no hell at all
I became obsessed with this question and that's what helped me in the end
Your are within Christianity still if you believe the church was mistaken on this point

If you don't have time to research this... have a look at the Odes of Solomon (google will get - free!) it's the sweetest Christianity and it contains the words 'Sheol has been abolished at my word'

Jesus is not in the damnation business, good luck!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums