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  #11  
Old 23-09-2019, 03:27 PM
JosephineB JosephineB is offline
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Who is to say what the right way to be and live is. Is it causing harm to others? Is it causing harm to themselves?
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  #12  
Old 23-09-2019, 04:04 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Originally Posted by SheShatters
Well, you all say it depends on the person, whether they are balanced or not. But, schizophrenia comes on often without the persons knowledge. The become enamored or dependent on the ‘special’ness the symptoms imply for them, and the do not seek or maintain treatment that would alleviate the symptoms. I have been on this forum for a short while and I have seen some posts that are very worrisome. In every case where I have mentioned the possibility of seeking psychiatric help, along with other posters who reply with their own experiences and non medical advice, all posts suggesting psychiatric intervention are completely ignored by the OP. Other members may also suggest intervention and they are ignored as well. So my question remains- how do you tell the ill from the psychic ? How does one tell in oneself if the self has need altered to a point where it nolonger recognizes itself. What is our responsibility to our fellow posters, fellow humans, when we see clear indications of magical thinking and all the checkpoints of mental illness? It can not all be on the I’ll person, society must take some of the responsibility since the ill cannot be help responsible for themselves. I guess my question moves from science to spirituality to ethics now.

These are all excellent questions..

How to tell the difference? For starters, those who hear voices could participate in experiments in controlled environments where third variables are excluded, and see if what ''the voices'' say is true or not, or whether people actually have such psychic powers. Then you can compare if the success rate is better than chance alone.

Throughout history people with epilepsy were supposedly ''possessed by demons'', rabies likely created werewolf myths. Who's to say the voices are any more real than the demon in the epileptic attack or the werewolves (?).
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  #13  
Old 23-09-2019, 04:09 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Originally Posted by JosephineBloggs
Who is to say what the right way to be and live is. Is it causing harm to others? Is it causing harm to themselves?

A mind who's quick to fall prey to delusions, even innocent ones, is also more likely to fall for anti-vaxx propaganda or other belief systems harmful to society. And if people are deliberately misleading others than this creates a lot of suffering also. Christian faith healers who shout hallelujahs to cancer patients can make those people not visit the doctor in an early stage cancer, and this will have consequences. I've also read a story of a girl with early stage cancer and she didn't go to a doctor because her guru told her to simply do a water fast. She died but would have had a good chance to survive if she simply went to a doctor instead.
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  #14  
Old 23-09-2019, 04:33 PM
ImthatIm
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SheShatters
I guess you should do what you feel is right.
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  #15  
Old 23-09-2019, 04:57 PM
JosephineB JosephineB is offline
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Originally Posted by Altair
A mind who's quick to fall prey to delusions, even innocent ones, is also more likely to fall for anti-vaxx propaganda or other belief systems harmful to society. And if people are deliberately misleading others than this creates a lot of suffering also. Christian faith healers who shout hallelujahs to cancer patients can make those people not visit the doctor in an early stage cancer, and this will have consequences. I've also read a story of a girl with early stage cancer and she didn't go to a doctor because her guru told her to simply do a water fast. She died but would have had a good chance to survive if she simply went to a doctor instead.


We can advise and try and support best we can, but we can't live someone's life for them. Also we can put our side of the argument forward.
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  #16  
Old 23-09-2019, 06:26 PM
NoOne NoOne is offline
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It's very hard to tell whether a communication is from an external source or it's just your mind playing tricks on you, or, indeed, wishful thinking.

There is a test though. If you feel that you are communicating with an external entity, you can always ask them to visit someone else (there'd have to be a pretty good reason, though), if they do, then you know it's not just your imagination, but you're dealing with a genuine spiritual entity. I have done this successfully a couple of times, though at other times, no visit took place.

This brings up the question of what determines whether such a test will be a success. I have even considered the possibility, that when I'm asking a supposedly external entity to visit someone else, what I'm really doing is creating an intention to project myself into the personal space of another person and when the visit actually happens, it is actually me, or my higher self, subconsciously projecting myself to where I have created the intention to go. This, however, sounds extremely unlikely. It is a lot more likely, that the entity that does the visiting (sometimes with the inclusion of what can only be described as a physical touch, such as a tap on a shoulder) is truly external to and independent from me.

It would be fascinating to come up with a truly empirical test to prove the existence of such spiritual entities, but the truth is they have neither the inclination nor the time to play around with experiments. I am unaware of anyone that can produce reliable results that would satisfy a scientific mind.
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  #17  
Old 23-09-2019, 06:56 PM
John32241 John32241 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SheShatters
So my question remains- how do you tell the ill from the psychic ? How does one tell in oneself if the self has need altered to a point where it nolonger recognizes itself. What is our responsibility to our fellow posters, fellow humans, when we see clear indications of magical thinking and all the checkpoints of mental illness? It can not all be on the I’ll person, society must take some of the responsibility since the ill cannot be help responsible for themselves. I guess my question moves from science to spirituality to ethics now.

Hi,

I suspect that sociey has not advanced far enough to discern such things in a comprehensive manner. I feel it will some day. For now we rely on the opinion of trained objective observers. Keeping in mind their bias in that process.

What I observe is that there are a lot of people having real psychic experiences that those having them would rather see as a mental illness than an exposure to the great unknown. When an unbalanced person has such an experience, it is an issue for them which is very complex.

John
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  #18  
Old 23-09-2019, 07:10 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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There is a fine line between getting help from "society", and getting abused by "society". See the recent case where the British government didn't allow the parents of a terminally ill kid to take him to US for an experimental treatment (the kid died).

So, I guess the right attitude is to let people make their own decisions as long as they don't demonstrably endanger others.

"Science" denies possibility of channeling, after-life, and such, quite often showing narrowmindedness, so you put your blind faith in it at your own risk.

A possibility to differentiate between true guidance and your own thoughts, healthy or not, is to follow something on these lines.

Quote:
How Can We Recognize True Intuitive Guidance?

Many people mistake strong, personal feeling for intuitive, superconscious guidance. Its important to learn to distinguish between the two, and follow only those true intuitions that come from a higher source.

If you keep the following principles in mind, you'll find it easier to tell the difference:

First of all, to recognize the kind of feeling that indicates true guidance, look for three qualities: calmness, clarity, and joy. Intuition is always based in a deep sense of calmness and detachment.

When you’re trying to tune in to the superconscious mind, ask yourself if the guidance you’ve received makes you feel excited or restless. If so, then it’s safe to assume that you’re just going along with your own desires. Try to associate true guidance with a sense of calm acceptance. When you’ve received an answer rather than thinking, “Yes, YES, YESS!”, your attitude should be, “Whatever is, is. It doesn’t touch me personally.”

You’ll experience a certain power with inner calmness, but it’s also very steady. If you find yourself jumping up and down in an agitated state, thinking, “Oh boy! I got this guidance. It’s just great!!” then it’s probably worth questioning.

The second thing to associate with true intuition is a sense of clarity. If you’re visualizing different alternatives, or if guidance comes to you in a dream, it’s important to distinguish between subconscious and superconscious influences. Subconscious images tend to have a certain obscurity or cloudiness to them, and the colors appear dim or muddy. These signs indicate projections of the subconscious mind and shouldn’t be trusted. In superconscious experiences, the colors will be bright, pure, and brilliant, and the images filled with clarity or radiance. The clarity of colors and images are strong signs that you’ve tuned in to true intuition.

I've never heard "voices", but I did / do channeling. The channeled answers, knowledge, guidance pop up in my mind, I become aware of it, at the moment I ask for it. I don't trust 100% that I interpret it accurately, but I put more trust in it than what others teach, advise, "know", agree, and such.

You may think you do a good thing recommending a poster to see psychiatric help, but you don't take any responsibility for the damage a well meaning psychiatrist might do to that person. You tried to help. Now, don't force it! Let the person make their own decision, and assume responsibility for their own well-being. You don't know what is better, or how it'll pan out.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #19  
Old 23-09-2019, 07:23 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
"Science" denies possibility of channeling, after-life, and such, quite often showing narrowmindedness, so you put your blind faith in it at your own risk.

It doesn't deny any of those things. It's about testing these things scientifically. Actually, paranormal phenomena have been studied quite a bit, but so far there's been no evidence that the phenomena described were actually paranormal.
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  #20  
Old 23-09-2019, 07:42 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
It doesn't deny any of those things. It's about testing these things scientifically. Actually, paranormal phenomena have been studied quite a bit, but so far there's been no evidence that the phenomena described were actually paranormal.
They didn't prove the opposite either.

Science is useful. Scientists are people.

There are an infinite number of things science doesn't know about.

When you put your blind faith in science you transform it in religion: scientism.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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