The Ultimate Truth

From the perspective of Turiya and to set the stage:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya#Advaita_Vedanta

"Advaita posits three states of consciousness, namely waking (jagrat), dreaming (svapna), deep sleep (suṣupti), which are empirically experienced by human beings, and correspond to the Three Bodies Doctrine:

1. The first state is the waking state, in which we are aware of our daily world. This is the gross body.

2. The second state is the dreaming mind. This is the subtle body.

3. The third state is the state of deep sleep. This is the causal body.

Advaita also posits the fourth state of Turiya, which some describe as pure consciousness, the background that underlies and transcends these three common states of consciousness. Turiya is the state of liberation, where according to the Advaita school, one experiences the infinite (ananta) and non-different (advaita/abheda), that is free from the dualistic experience, the state in which ajativada, non-origination, is apprehended. According to Candradhara Sarma, Turiya state is where the foundational Self is realized, it is measureless, neither cause nor effect, all pervading, without suffering, blissful, changeless, self-luminous, real, immanent in all things and transcendent. Those who have experienced the Turiya stage of self-consciousness have reached the pure awareness of their own non-dual Self as one with everyone and everything, for them the knowledge, the knower, the known becomes one, they are the Jivanmukta."

https://youtu.be/goNIy6RDfX8

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

The fourth state, then the fifth! Flickering samadhi and permanent samadhi.

***

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

From the perspective of Turiya and to set the stage:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya#Advaita_Vedanta

"Advaita posits three states of consciousness, namely waking (jagrat), dreaming (svapna), deep sleep (suṣupti), which are empirically experienced by human beings, and correspond to the Three Bodies Doctrine:

1. The first state is the waking state, in which we are aware of our daily world. This is the gross body.

2. The second state is the dreaming mind. This is the subtle body.

3. The third state is the state of deep sleep. This is the causal body.

Advaita also posits the fourth state of Turiya, which some describe as pure consciousness, the background that underlies and transcends these three common states of consciousness. Turiya is the state of liberation, where according to the Advaita school, one experiences the infinite (ananta) and non-different (advaita/abheda), that is free from the dualistic experience, the state in which ajativada, non-origination, is apprehended. According to Candradhara Sarma, Turiya state is where the foundational Self is realized, it is measureless, neither cause nor effect, all pervading, without suffering, blissful, changeless, self-luminous, real, immanent in all things and transcendent. Those who have experienced the Turiya stage of self-consciousness have reached the pure awareness of their own non-dual Self as one with everyone and everything, for them the knowledge, the knower, the known becomes one, they are the Jivanmukta."

https://youtu.be/goNIy6RDfX8

Very good description of 4 states of awareness with Turiya being the ultimate. Every time you read you find something new amazing perspective in it.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Advaita also posits the fourth state of Turiya, which some describe as pure consciousness, the background that underlies and transcends these three common states of consciousness. Turiya is the state of liberation, where according to the Advaita school, one experiences the infinite (ananta) and non-different (advaita/abheda), that is free from the dualistic experience, the state in which ajativada, non-origination, is apprehended. According to Candradhara Sarma, Turiya state is where the foundational Self is realized, it is measureless, neither cause nor effect, all pervading, without suffering, blissful, changeless, self-luminous, real, immanent in all things and transcendent. Those who have experienced the Turiya stage of self-consciousness have reached the pure awareness of their own non-dual Self as one with everyone and everything, for them the knowledge, the knower, the known becomes one, they are the Jivanmukta.

This still strikes me as a 'going back' to 'the womb' from which all Creation 'came' ... it is every soul's original 'alpha' (recalled from 'deep' memory) not the ultimate 'omega' which those who progress actovely move forward towards, my logical (I think, and so assert for logical consideration and contemplation) opinion.

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, ..." yada, yada (Revelation Ch.1)

Originally Posted by davidsun

This still strikes me as a 'going back' to 'the womb' from which all Creation 'came' ... it is every soul's original 'alpha' (recalled from 'deep' memory) not the ultimate 'omega' which those who progress actovely move forward towards, my logical (I think, and so assert for logical consideration and contemplation) opinion.

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, ..." yada, yada (Revelation Ch.1)

From an unqualified non-dualist perspective there is no beginning and no ending, so there's nothing to move away from or move towards.

It's like light. From our perspective it moves through space and time and as both a wave and particle. From light's perspective it's neither a wave nor a particle and doesn't experience space or time. Point of emission and absorption are coincident. Oh, and it doesn't have mass. From its perspective it doesn't exist in the realm of space, time and matter.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

From an unqualified non-dualist perspective there is no beginning and no ending, so there's nothing to move away from or move towards.

That 'proves' 'half' of my point.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

It's like light. From our perspective it moves through space and time and as both a wave and particle. From light's perspective it's neither a wave nor a particle and doesn't experience space or time. Point of emission and absorption are coincident. Oh, and it doesn't have mass. From its perspective it doesn't exist in the realm of space, time and matter.

Yah, non-existence, i.e. 'nihilism', is another way of attempting to disengage from Life's imperative to 'go' forward (to experience and express a 'greater' degree of Love and Joy), to escape facing the often difficult and sometime daunting challenges (tests?) inherent in the 'task' of becoming a more fully actualized part of The Flow of Life. Except the fact is that the energy of Light is always on the move, as It is transformationall re-absorbed and re-emitted from time-and-place to time-and-place - ever-ongoingly never the same.

As Heraclites said: “No man ever steps into the same river twice, for it’s not the same river and he’s not the same man!"

Good luck with your 'ignore-ance' of this, Guy!

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by davidsun

That 'proves' 'half' of my point.


Yah, non-existence, i.e. 'nihilism', is another way of attempting to disengage from Life's imperative to 'go' forward (to experience and express a 'greater' degree of Love and Joy), to escape facing the often difficult and sometime daunting challenges (tests?) inherent in the 'task' of becoming a more fully actualized part of The Flow of Life. Except the fact is that the energy of Light is always on the move, as It is transformationall re-absorbed and re-emitted from time-and-place to time-and-place - ever-ongoingly never the same.

As Heraclites said: “No man ever steps into the same river twice, for it’s not the same river and he’s not the same man!"

Good luck with your 'ignore-ance' of this, Guy!

What does pure consciousness mean anyway? Does pure consciousness mean being fully and completely aware of existence/creation in the right here and now or does pure consciousness mean escaping existence/creation in the right here and now, by being fully and completely aware, attached, and obsessed with subjective non-existence? Hmmmm lol

Originally Posted by MikeS80

What does pure consciousness mean anyway? Does pure consciousness mean being fully and completely aware of existence/creation in the right here and now or does pure consciousness mean escaping existence/creation in the right here and now, by being fully and completely aware, attached, and obsessed with subjective non-existence? Hmmmm lol

Anyone who's had a taste of it will know what I mean with this analogy.

You're having a dream. At some point in the dream and without waking up you become lucid with waking consciousness. Firmly within dream reality but with waking consciousness.

You're awake. At some point during wakefulness you become lucid with Turiya (Atman/Witness) consciousness. Firmly within waking reality but with Turiya consciousness.

It's unmistakable when experiencing and realizing that state of consciousness. It's just like a lucid dream in one way, but whereas a lucid dream is an amazing experience super-consciousness is a profound experience. A life-changing experience in the truest sense.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

From the perspective of Turiya and to set the stage:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya#Advaita_Vedanta

"Advaita posits three states of consciousness, namely waking (jagrat), dreaming (svapna), deep sleep (suṣupti), which are empirically experienced by human beings, and correspond to the Three Bodies Doctrine:

1. The first state is the waking state, in which we are aware of our daily world. This is the gross body.

2. The second state is the dreaming mind. This is the subtle body.

3. The third state is the state of deep sleep. This is the causal body.

Advaita also posits the fourth state of Turiya, which some describe as pure consciousness, the background that underlies and transcends these three common states of consciousness. Turiya is the state of liberation, where according to the Advaita school, one experiences the infinite (ananta) and non-different (advaita/abheda), that is free from the dualistic experience, the state in which ajativada, non-origination, is apprehended. According to Candradhara Sarma, Turiya state is where the foundational Self is realized, it is measureless, neither cause nor effect, all pervading, without suffering, blissful, changeless, self-luminous, real, immanent in all things and transcendent. Those who have experienced the Turiya stage of self-consciousness have reached the pure awareness of their own non-dual Self as one with everyone and everything, for them the knowledge, the knower, the known becomes one, they are the Jivanmukta."

https://youtu.be/goNIy6RDfX8

Advaita means not two which is the ultimate message of nonduality. When the implications of that message resonate, the search ends. The other states mentioned, presumably regarded as necessary to be achieved by practise, have nothing to do with that resonance.

Originally Posted by Iamit

Advaita means not two which is the ultimate message of nonduality. When the implications of that message resonate, the search ends. The other states mentioned, presumably regarded as necessary to be achieved by practise, have nothing to do with that resonance.

Yet here we are immersed in waking, dreaming and deep sleep every single day, no practice required. These are natural states of our embodied existence.

Practice helps to understand these states and discover the underlying truth of our existence.

By the way, the Neo-Advaita approach is practice as it is in fact Jnana Yoga which is a practice, albeit in Neo-Advaita it's greatly watered down.

There's the one extreme of Old School Advaita Vedanta where a student wouldn't be instructed in the core of the teachings of self inquiry until achieving a sattvic mind, and that generally took a decade or so of practices to purify and clarify mind.

Then there's Neo-Advaita which basically dismisses the depth and strength of all the genetic, biological and experiential conditioning of mind and posits it can all be overcome by simply hearing the truth and doing a little bit of self inquiry, bypassing all the preliminary work.

The problem with the Old School approach is it's very exclusive and only realistic to those who decide to take up a monastic life.

The problem with the Neo-Advaita approach is it's massively more likely the awakening is simply an appropriation by the ego self.

If that last bit disturbs you I suggest perhaps more work (practice) is required. If not then perhaps you are there.