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  #1  
Old 06-07-2020, 10:26 AM
lejonjus
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Alternate approach to narcissism

Has anyone else been sensing like new ideas and approaches are asking to be brought in? Maybe that's an idea for a different thread. I've been sensing this with psychology. Where we are ready to move from the protection stance which served its purpose with awareness and start shifting towards healing it in society. I will explain why I think this way.

Knowing the traits and variations are more common than we think and how I too have needed to work in certain areas is having me want to approach it differently in my life. I will link a site that lists some of the traits. 1) control and 5) managing conflict I see as common. https://survivingnarcissism.tv/narci...behavior-quiz/. Being human we are bound to experience traits like this at some point and all have the capacity to heal.

The theme for these eclipses for me have been around certain family dynamics. I have a family member who is manipulative and doesn't respect boundaries. Thankfully they don't live with me so I get a break from it. I was patient about reinforcing the boundaries and gave many opportunities. I decided to tell them I've been working on improving patterns in myself. Stating how I've been working on improving it and giving them the chance to do the same. Knowing the traits are more common than we think and how I too have needed to work in certain areas I decided to approach it that way. Bring it to their awareness as something our family could work on together. A month later the same issues came up right on time with this Full Moon. I lost my patience lol I really want to move on from having to assert the same boundaries. Hopefully me losing my patience has helped it set in this time.
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2020, 05:55 PM
WildHairedWoman WildHairedWoman is offline
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That is intersting, I think the best way, at least I learned, handling someone who insists on stepping over rationally set boundaries is to shun them, refuse interaction, hang up the phone, step on their toes (metaphorically or physically), and make sure they never can push you to anger or to do something you know you should not, or something you don't want to.

I have dealt with something like this with my father for 64 years. And because I have always been the one to stand up to him, point out his bad behviour, tell him no, etc. I am the enemy when he talks to everyone else in the family, However, I am the one he calls when he needs something and I am the only one who he has ever apologized to, and that man should spend his last days apologizing 8 hours a day to everyone.

So, what I am dealing with is my anger that as a child I had to learn how not to be bulllied by an adult who was supposed to be the one man I should be able to trust.

On the other hand, I see abusive narcissists coming and can side step so that or what ever so that they do not think about using me.

Yes, everyone on the planet needs to be self protective, and sometimes self serving just to survive. It is the human condition, but when someone cannot even look up beyond their nose and see others have needs, it is called narcisism and it is a diagnosable mental health issue.

Once you determine that being firm but nice does not work, you have to be strong and insistent, whether it feels like you are being mean or not. Loosing your temper will not help, staying rational and strong will. Eveyone is allowed to say No.

That may not have helped, I realized I kind of went in to a rant. Sorry. I hope you do figure out the best way for you to interact with that person.
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  #3  
Old 06-07-2020, 06:50 PM
lejonjus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildHairedWoman
That is intersting, I think the best way, at least I learned, handling someone who insists on stepping over rationally set boundaries is to shun them, refuse interaction, hang up the phone, step on their toes (metaphorically or physically), and make sure they never can push you to anger or to do something you know you should not, or something you don't want to.

I have dealt with something like this with my father for 64 years. And because I have always been the one to stand up to him, point out his bad behviour, tell him no, etc. I am the enemy when he talks to everyone else in the family, However, I am the one he calls when he needs something and I am the only one who he has ever apologized to, and that man should spend his last days apologizing 8 hours a day to everyone.

So, what I am dealing with is my anger that as a child I had to learn how not to be bulllied by an adult who was supposed to be the one man I should be able to trust.

On the other hand, I see abusive narcissists coming and can side step so that or what ever so that they do not think about using me.

Yes, everyone on the planet needs to be self protective, and sometimes self serving just to survive. It is the human condition, but when someone cannot even look up beyond their nose and see others have needs, it is called narcisism and it is a diagnosable mental health issue.

Once you determine that being firm but nice does not work, you have to be strong and insistent, whether it feels like you are being mean or not. Loosing your temper will not help, staying rational and strong will. Eveyone is allowed to say No.

That may not have helped, I realized I kind of went in to a rant. Sorry. I hope you do figure out the best way for you to interact with that person.

Your rant is welcome. Thanks for your reply. With the older generations I can see how difficult it would be for improvement. I agree with what you're saying.

I'm still hopeful because the influences in our family have been removed. It's not an isolated issue either. I've addressed the traits with my sibling and we both see room for improvement in ourselves and are working towards it. Now referring to the family member I mentioned in the forum post I think they are aware of the patterns but just don't know what to do. I'm showing them how I'm doing it and as I said I'm hopeful. They are trying and I appreciate it. Corrections were made and we found resolution after.

Btw I like your username : ) my hair can get pretty wild too haha currently taming it with a hair tie
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  #4  
Old 07-07-2020, 05:39 PM
WildHairedWoman WildHairedWoman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lejonjus
Your rant is welcome. Thanks for your reply. With the older generations I can see how difficult it would be for improvement. I agree with what you're saying.

I'm still hopeful because the influences in our family have been removed. It's not an isolated issue either. I've addressed the traits with my sibling and we both see room for improvement in ourselves and are working towards it. Now referring to the family member I mentioned in the forum post I think they are aware of the patterns but just don't know what to do. I'm showing them how I'm doing it and as I said I'm hopeful. They are trying and I appreciate it. Corrections were made and we found resolution after.

Btw I like your username : ) my hair can get pretty wild too haha currently taming it with a hair tie

I am glad that you have a sibling that agrees and both of you are working on patterns that no longer serve you.

As for my name, it is the most accurate one I could think of. :) on another forum I call myself DesertRat and that is accurate, just not as descriptive.
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  #5  
Old 08-07-2020, 12:46 PM
lejonjus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildHairedWoman
I am glad that you have a sibling that agrees and both of you are working on patterns that no longer serve you.

As for my name, it is the most accurate one I could think of. :) on another forum I call myself DesertRat and that is accurate, just not as descriptive.

Thanks it's something I'm hopeful for all of us. This woman I found to be such an inspiration. I've already referenced her in other posts because it resonates strongly. She is the only one I found on youtube using hypnosis to treat personality traits. Combining spirituality with psychology. Without spirituality it's like there's something missing like the overall depiction of it is incomplete. I guess that's why the other sources weren't resonating.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC84...RPO9wyMh0do0CA
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  #6  
Old 25-07-2020, 03:40 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lejonjus
Has anyone else been sensing like new ideas and approaches are asking to be brought in? Maybe that's an idea for a different thread. I've been sensing this with psychology. Where we are ready to move from the protection stance which served its purpose with awareness and start shifting towards healing it in society. I will explain why I think this way.

Knowing the traits and variations are more common than we think and how I too have needed to work in certain areas is having me want to approach it differently in my life. I will link a site that lists some of the traits. 1) control and 5) managing conflict I see as common. https://survivingnarcissism.tv/narci...behavior-quiz/. Being human we are bound to experience traits like this at some point and all have the capacity to heal.

The theme for these eclipses for me have been around certain family dynamics. I have a family member who is manipulative and doesn't respect boundaries. Thankfully they don't live with me so I get a break from it. I was patient about reinforcing the boundaries and gave many opportunities. I decided to tell them I've been working on improving patterns in myself. Stating how I've been working on improving it and giving them the chance to do the same. Knowing the traits are more common than we think and how I too have needed to work in certain areas I decided to approach it that way. Bring it to their awareness as something our family could work on together. A month later the same issues came up right on time with this Full Moon. I lost my patience lol I really want to move on from having to assert the same boundaries. Hopefully me losing my patience has helped it set in this time.
I am familiar with that WWW site and have watched a ton of their you-tube videos. I have been struggling for years to understand the behavior patterns (sometimes rather bizarre and disturbing) of certain individuals. Why they do what they do? What motivates them to act like that? Do the realize they are doing it? Since coming across this narcissism info, so much of it finally fits together. I thought I understood what the word entailed until recently. I hate to say it, but it is something of a Rosetta stone in understanding certain types of people. Once you learn what to look for, it becomes disturbing how common this behavior pattern is, and most if honest, will see some signs of it in themselves.

We humans have evolved to depend on our tribes and societies for survival probably as much or more so then any other mammal. It makes sense that our struggle of the fittest would have moved from physical traits to social ones as we struggle for advantage within those societies we depend upon. Narcissism, though it may make everyone miserable, including the narcissist, does often give them an advantage when it comes to getting ahead. Heck they may even ride it to the highest positions of society.

An alternative approach to manipulation and exploitation as a way of life might be cooperation. You know, love they neighbor, the golden rule, and that sort of thing. A difficult thing to do when there is still so much narcissism prevalent in societies. That said, awareness of it is growing, so perhaps more recognition of the behavior will serve to draw more condemnation of it and lead to an evolution that makes narcissism less of a successful trait. Instead, hopefully, that new approach may be brought it.

Now as to your family relationships, all I can say is I wish you well. Based on my experiences with narcissists, which I now realize is ... well much more than I would have liked, and all of the research I have done since discovering this topic, it seems that getting a narcissist to become self aware and do the hard work necessary to change that behavior, is extremely hard and rare. For now, my focus is going to be to look inside to become aware of where it is in play in me and try to exercise those demons. Also to seek ways to insulate and isolate from narcissism in others...try to exercise those demons from my life as well.
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  #7  
Old 25-07-2020, 04:23 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
[quote=WildHairedWoman]That is intersting, I think the best way, at least I learned, handling someone who insists on stepping over rationally set boundaries is to shun them, refuse interaction, hang up the phone, step on their toes (metaphorically or physically), and make sure they never can push you to anger or to do something you know you should not, or something you don't want to.

Let's see.... if I have learned my narcissism nomenclature that might be called either "going no contact", or maybe "going grayrock".


I have dealt with something like this with my father for 64 years. And because I have always been the one to stand up to him, point out his bad behviour, tell him no, etc. I am the enemy when he talks to everyone else in the family,

Let's see.... that might perhaps be called either "triangulating", and maybe "recruiting flying monkeys".


However, I am the one he calls when he needs something and I am the only one who he has ever apologized to, and that man should spend his last days apologizing 8 hours a day to everyone.

"manipulating", and maybe some "hoovering". Insincere apologies are often used as a means of manipulating, hoovering, or "gas lighting".


So, what I am dealing with is my anger that as a child I had to learn how not to be bulllied by an adult who was supposed to be the one man I should be able to trust.

Know exactly what you mean. Unfortunately, trust can be seen as a weakness to be used against them by some. An opportunity to be exploited for advantage.


On the other hand, I see abusive narcissists coming and can side step so that or what ever so that they do not think about using me.

I wish I could say I know exactly what you mean. Unfortunately, it seems I have been something of a narcissist magnet. I do think I understand why that is however, so there is hope I may become educated to and sensitive of it, like you are, in the future. God I sure hope so, because I am worn out!!!


Yes, everyone on the planet needs to be self protective, and sometimes self serving just to survive. It is the human condition, but when someone cannot even look up beyond their nose and see others have needs, it is called narcisism and it is a diagnosable mental health issue.

Here is to hoping the human condition turns out to be more malleable then it now seems to be. I think that perhaps narcissists see that others have needs, they just see life as a competition between people to get our own needs met. Despite the grandiosity and superiority they often exhibit, they say they are hiding (usually unconsciously) deep insecurity. They can't worry about others needs as they are always unconsciously afraid theirs won't be met and they must fight to get anything they can. Even though it may seem they get too much, it never seems to them to be enough. I think the term for this is "narcissistic supply." and the narcissist never feels they have a secure enough source.


Once you determine that being firm but nice does not work, you have to be strong and insistent, whether it feels like you are being mean or not. Loosing your temper will not help, staying rational and strong will. Eveyone is allowed to say No.

That may not have helped, I realized I kind of went in to a rant. Sorry. I hope you do figure out the best way for you to interact with that person.

Everyone is allowed to say no. Unfortunately, some can't seem to hear it and will never stop trying. Saying no to a narcissist does often result in them becoming enraged or seeing you as an enemy. Then one has to go "no contact." Sad, but how it often is.


[/QUOTE

Sorry if I offended you, I don't mean to play psychologist and diagnose your dad, but I have to say, it is interesting to apply this new found knowledge to your description. I have to say it is disturbing how common this way of life seems to be for so many. It is also striking that once one comes to understand it, how apparent it can be when one comes to know one. On the bright side of things, I feel like after years of recognizing and struggling to understand symptoms, and wondering if I am really seeing what I am seeing, I finally found a diagnosis that explains it all so very well. It's not my imagination, it is real. That diagnosis, even if it turns out to be a terminal one for some of my relationships, is a relief in and of itself.
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