We Are Perfect (as we are)?....

If you believe that we are perfect as we are, then this is the thread for you!

I am trying to understand this belief so would welcome feedback. I haven't yet achieved sainthood so, as a mere mortal, am subject to being less than perfect. This is why I believe in improving myself, developing, learning (e.g. from books and/or from the experiences of others). I feel this process will be continuous throughout my life since growth is not static.

From what I have gleaned from those sharing the belief (that they are perfect), there is no need to learn....they are "there" and being is sufficient. I realise that if we have achieve enlightenment then that is true but, from my interactions with those holding this belief (of being perfect) , I have not felt that this is the case. To be more accurate, I have not felt that they are more spiritually evolved than myself. I am being honest here - not facetious. I have a lot of humility and am very keen to always learn.

If you believe that we are perfect in essence only, then I am still at a loss as to why learning is still shunned.

We have faults that we need to address, learn from and correct. This is surely what partly constitutes spiritual progress. I don't see that our faults can be perfect; this is a contradiction in terms. If you disagree, please explain. I want to understand.

I have realized that I am me and have always been and will always be, and no matter what that will always be enough. It has nothing to do with how spiritual we are evolved, because in basic we are all equal no matter what. I am quite full of flaws but sees those as part of my beauty. Imperfect is the perfect way to be, everything else would be too boring

I am my own perfection.
It is as perfect
As I can muster to this moment.
If others find faults
it may be their reflection
of themselves.

I have realized that I am me and have always been and will always be, and no matter what that will always be enough. It has nothing to do with how spiritual we are evolved, because in basic we are all equal no matter what. I am quite full of flaws but sees those as part of my beauty. Imperfect is the perfect way to be, everything else would be too boring

Do you not see the contradiction here?

[xxLoveLifexx]

Hi amy,

as often it's up to the definitions and limited language we have to talk about concepts that are for us more to understand intuitively and experientially.

The definition of some people's concept of perfection is indeed a stagnant state where it looks like everything is sorted out by certain expectations, when beyond the shadow of a doubt everything changes by its own nature all the time. What in my perspective is meant when talking about perfection is that every version that we can create our reality to be is the perfect version of reality we are in for its own way for its own reasons. In a spiritual sense nothing goes to the waste and no experience/perspective is more valid than any other experience/perspective, regardless of the intellectual denial we can create through our judgment.

It doesn't mean we can't have preferences and a vision of becoming something else. In that regards what is perfection anyway when we can conceive of it fully as concept - I wouldn't like to be part of an infinity, a creator or perfection that could be fully grasped by a human mind only. For this world in particular we are living in, we tend to come to have a full experience of life kidding ourselves all the time until we wake up and see the perfection in the version of life that is happening, including seeing it being completely commensurate to our decisions and beliefs we came up with. We are fully supported in the version of life we are creating and it works in flawless perfection, otherwise we wouldn't be able to have any experience in a way to relate to.

[Saggi]

What if,,,

Reaching enlightenment meant accepting yourself as you are?

And that this in itself was a continuous journey,,,,

Accepting that even if you get up every day and have the same routine, someone or something could put a spanner in the works and change the whole thing,,,

And what is acceptable is how adaptable you are and able to grow within the change,,,

Just a thought,,,

Love and hugs

Jo

XxXx

Originally Posted by Lukas

Hi amy,

as often it's up to the definitions and limited language we have to talk about concepts that are for us more to understand intuitively and experientially.

The definition of some people's concept of perfection is indeed a stagnant state where it looks like everything is sorted out by certain expectations, when beyond the shadow of a doubt everything changes by its own nature all the time. What in my perspective is meant when talking about perfection is that every version that we can create our reality to be is the perfect version of reality we are in for its own way for its own reasons. In a spiritual sense nothing goes to the waste and no experience/perspective is more valid than any other experience/perspective, regardless of the intellectual denial we can create through our judgment.

Thanks so much Lucas. (Once again you have helped clarify an issue for me!)
I had an inkling that the word "perfect" was applied in a different way and your explanation makes sense. Guess what? I am in agreement with this!

How I see this playing out though is that, life unfolds as it does for a reason. This is where learning comes in surely? If we do not readily understand the "reason", i.e. understand our present predicament, surely this is where feedback (via books/people) becomes beneficial?

Originally Posted by Saggi

What if,,,

Reaching enlightenment meant accepting yourself as you are?

And that this in itself was a continuous journey,,,,

Accepting that even if you get up every day and have the same routine, someone or something could put a spanner in the works and change the whole thing,,,

And what is acceptable is how adaptable you are and able to grow within the change,,,

Saggi, I don't share your definition of enlightenment as just being acceptance of yourself. Would this apply to everyone, i.e. a paedophile, murderer? My definition/understanding of enlightenment is a bit more mystical than that (entailing being in constant contact with the divine).

Being able to adapt to situations, to me, is not about acceptance but being pro-active, i.e. being initially aware/mindful and then directive. Acceptance is a passive act, i.e. not interactive and therefore not requiring adaptation.

[Mr Interesting]

I was in a room full of people, all women actually, and we had turns to speak and everyone remained sitting whilst doing so, but when it was my turn to speak I moved up in my chair at which one of the women said 'go on Sean, stand up' so I did, But then I stood on my chair and the next thing was I spread my arms out and said 'I am perfect'.

When I sat down, amidst much laughter, the leader, teacher, asked that I say what I was going to say... I said I just did.

Like Saggi I'm of the belief that everything is perfect as it is. That it is about accepting ourselves as ourselves where, when and who we are within that continuum. And that within that accepting of that perfection we can be more of the perfection that has always been.

What I did I did without thinking... it was what I do!

[Xan]

What if,,,

Reaching enlightenment meant accepting yourself as you are?

Accepting yourself as you are, not as a global idea, but each moment feeling accepting with whatever you experience... is part of the enlightenment process, as it opens us more into who we truly are.

The idea "I am perfect" won't get you beans, since it just comes from the mind.


Xan