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  #121  
Old 23-01-2017, 05:17 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Thank you, Tobi...yes, I know I am not alone here. At least that's better than comparing me to somebody less fortunate.

Quote:
What do you consider spirituality to be?

to me I view it as living. When I'm living consciously I could be doing good deeds or evil deeds but as long as I grow from them they are good in my eyes.

I consider it to be living in balance and at peace with God, my world and everything in it.

My mental health nurse (who just left after paying me a visit) thinks I should be more assertive and stand up for what I want and what I believe in, as long as I am not being openly rude or aggro by doing so.

This also begs the question though, is somebody who does 'evil deeds' consciously and with full awareness being spiritual?

I could so do that.

In the end though and after logical thought, you are right about transforming and transmuting the pain and I have spent all morning looking up trauma specialists and cognitive behavioural therapy...

As well as studying the effects of acetylcholine blockers to stop the side-effects of other chemicals still stored in fat cells...after my nurse told me that chronic drug use can lead to white matter build up around neural sheaths leading to a condition similar to, but not multiple sclerosis...yeah, tell me all about it.

At least I am getting somewhere and I have even filled in a weekly planner...go me! lol
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  #122  
Old 23-01-2017, 05:08 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Hi Necromancer,

Thanks for the opportunity to respond further to points addressed to me in replies # 89 & 93 in this thread.
Any time anyone replies to, or merely reads any post on the boards, that is an implicit ‘task’. Therefore, beyond addressing the person, a formal demand by announcement isn’t really necessary (even if it is an effective attention grabber). Plus there is likewise, always an implicit choice available to members as to whether they wish to respond at all, or not; to which available points, and how; or, to bring up new or derivative subjects.

Accordingly, I wish to limit my response to those points which seem (imo) to have the most possible utility for the general audience of these boards, namely spiritual aspirants, assuming they do find utility in it/them. But also to presume no compulsion to find utility in any offering, since everyone has different needs, urgent and otherwise, even at different times.

As well, there is no need for me to address even a few of the many highly charged, dramatic, and often demonstrably self-conflicted assertions, including those presented within the posts addressed directly to me, especially ones of very personal nature, including for instance the curious fervent claim that you are a closed book. Really?? In that case, I invite you to read any random 10% of your own oeuvre here at SF (and you can still refer to yourself in the 3rd person in doing so).

Meanwhile, I’ll refrain from further addressing or describing the character of same - even confined specifically to replies to me - in the interest of avoiding possibly convoluted thread derailing disputes based on a necessarily contrived oblivion of what I just read. (This is normal discussion forum stuff, btw. Deal with it, Jyotir)
.


Having prefaced with that,


The most important point relevant to my original comments,
is that regarding any selfless service, work, aka Karma Yoga, the only real and exclusive qualification, is:
WILLINGNESS.

That’s all, and make no mistake about it. Capacity, in fact, is not a qualification in the least; it’s irrelevant...spiritually. That’s because energetically, experience originates in, and is enabled by that willingness which leads to practical realization. Any reversal of that premise amounts to a clever - or not so clever evasion, although quite common within conventional, material, desire or personality-based life.

iow - Capacity is ever the result of willingness - not the other way around; not the cause. This is the secret, the meaning, and the significance to becoming a surrendered instrument, a channel of divine force, a manifestation of truth-consciousness - - the entire means and goal of karma yoga, work, or service…. a continuity of detached willingness. Another secret is that said willingness may originate in devotion.

If one does not choose to become a practical exponent or practitioner of some form of karma yoga (service), that is certainly a valid, available choice. There are numerous forms of sadhana, and there are 24 hours in a day.

Karma Yoga is never a mandate unless it happens to be the path chosen by one’s soul - whether for one entire life or one moment a day - and the process of utilizing these opportunities is a uniquely personal one, including the very important tenet that genuine spiritual sadhana has to be, by nature - voluntary and uncompelled. Otherwise, it ain’t spiritual.

Of course, resistance - vehement and otherwise - to these impulsions, if genuine and originating in the individual soul’s evolutionary necessity, may also be the source of much torment for aspirants ("If you bring forth that which is within you, that which is within you will save you. If you don't bring forth that which is within you, that which is within you shall destroy you").

But the roller-coaster of those gyrations and oscillations are also part of the sadhana of ‘acquiring the soul’, or becoming its instrument.


~ J



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  #123  
Old 23-01-2017, 07:30 PM
shivatar shivatar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Necromancer
This also begs the question though, is somebody who does 'evil deeds' consciously and with full awareness being spiritual?

I could so do that.

It depends how a person defines spirituality. If I murder someone I can do it spiritually but it's still an evil deed. I would still face justice for my karma.

karma means of my own doing by the way. There is no God or universal karma that does things to us, it's always us making choices and facing the consequences. Understanding this allows a person to accept their past and change their future, rather than being imprisoned by them.
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  #124  
Old 24-01-2017, 01:46 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir




Hi Necromancer,

Thanks for the opportunity to respond further to points addressed to me in replies # 89 & 93 in this thread.
Any time anyone replies to, or merely reads any post on the boards, that is an implicit ‘task’. Therefore, beyond addressing the person, a formal demand by announcement isn’t really necessary (even if it is an effective attention grabber). Plus there is likewise, always an implicit choice available to members as to whether they wish to respond at all, or not; to which available points, and how; or, to bring up new or derivative subjects.

Accordingly, I wish to limit my response to those points which seem (imo) to have the most possible utility for the general audience of these boards, namely spiritual aspirants, assuming they do find utility in it/them. But also to presume no compulsion to find utility in any offering, since everyone has different needs, urgent and otherwise, even at different times.

As well, there is no need for me to address even a few of the many highly charged, dramatic, and often demonstrably self-conflicted assertions, including those presented within the posts addressed directly to me, especially ones of very personal nature, including for instance the curious fervent claim that you are a closed book. Really?? In that case, I invite you to read any random 10% of your own oeuvre here at SF (and you can still refer to yourself in the 3rd person in doing so).

Meanwhile, I’ll refrain from further addressing or describing the character of same - even confined specifically to replies to me - in the interest of avoiding possibly convoluted thread derailing disputes based on a necessarily contrived oblivion of what I just read. (This is normal discussion forum stuff, btw. Deal with it, Jyotir)
.


Having prefaced with that,


The most important point relevant to my original comments,
is that regarding any selfless service, work, aka Karma Yoga, the only real and exclusive qualification, is:
WILLINGNESS.

That’s all, and make no mistake about it. Capacity, in fact, is not a qualification in the least; it’s irrelevant...spiritually. That’s because energetically, experience originates in, and is enabled by that willingness which leads to practical realization. Any reversal of that premise amounts to a clever - or not so clever evasion, although quite common within conventional, material, desire or personality-based life.

iow - Capacity is ever the result of willingness - not the other way around; not the cause. This is the secret, the meaning, and the significance to becoming a surrendered instrument, a channel of divine force, a manifestation of truth-consciousness - - the entire means and goal of karma yoga, work, or service…. a continuity of detached willingness. Another secret is that said willingness may originate in devotion.

If one does not choose to become a practical exponent or practitioner of some form of karma yoga (service), that is certainly a valid, available choice. There are numerous forms of sadhana, and there are 24 hours in a day.

Karma Yoga is never a mandate unless it happens to be the path chosen by one’s soul - whether for one entire life or one moment a day - and the process of utilizing these opportunities is a uniquely personal one, including the very important tenet that genuine spiritual sadhana has to be, by nature - voluntary and uncompelled. Otherwise, it ain’t spiritual.

Of course, resistance - vehement and otherwise - to these impulsions, if genuine and originating in the individual soul’s evolutionary necessity, may also be the source of much torment for aspirants ("If you bring forth that which is within you, that which is within you will save you. If you don't bring forth that which is within you, that which is within you shall destroy you").

But the roller-coaster of those gyrations and oscillations are also part of the sadhana of ‘acquiring the soul’, or becoming its instrument.


~ J



That is fair enough and I sincerely apologise for taking it as a required mandate, rather than just one option out of so many.

I will try not to talk about things in the third person too, but it's just a characteristic of my insanity, unfortunately - much like why royal people have done this down throughout the centuries.

Let me try this...

You are correct and I took it as a lecture that I 'must' do it, rather than advice that it just may be a good idea for me to try. I blame the language used and the limitations of the internet in communication.

Thing is, I am given free-will to decide if this is what I want to do, and it is not. End of story.

I still have to learn to say "no, I don't WANT to do it, the end" instead of ranting and whining about why it may/not be a good idea or what relevance it has for me personally.

I have to still learn how to say "thank you for your advice, I shall take it into consideration" and let that be my 'catch cry' for the sake of diplomacy, politeness and being 'socially correct' even though I have no intention of 'considering it' at least those words shut other people up and lead them to believe I am doing it or at least thinking it over.

Even in real life now, I find myself just superficially agreeing with others or saying 'yeah, I'll do it' just to stop the lips from flapping, but I don't do it anyway and I had no intention of doing it, but I am learning very fast to become the master of empty placation and lies because it makes my existence much easier and I don't have to explain myself and everybody can just have all their opinions they are entitled to anyway.

So, don't be surprised the next time you 'advise' me to do karma yoga and I tell you that I am 'already doing it' just to keep the peace. I found it's much better to outright lie than to make up excuses and whine about why I cannot or should not do it. I found if I tell people what they 'want to hear' I get very far in this life because nobody knows what I do in my spare time so they just have to take 'my word for it' which isn't worth s***, btw.

So yeah, I see your point that if I am not going to do something, just say 'thank you' and move on, maybe adding another soul to my ignore list or something if I cannot bear to read any more 'good suggestions' by that person and wish to keep myself embroiled in ignorance...after all, they say that is bliss and I am starting to agree. I wouldn't be tantric if I didn't anyway.
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  #125  
Old 13-02-2017, 09:36 PM
shiningstars shiningstars is offline
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I always thought that unhappiness/suffering is related to degrees of egotism (egotism = selfishness). Everyone is self-centered, that is often half the fun. If it wasn't my story, why would I be interested?

But the promise of a spiritual journey (as opposed to a simple belief system, or mantra) is the promise of a relinquishment of ego, of silence of mind, and ergo, more peace and happiness in one's life. Transcendence.

Service is a common "symptom" I have seen across all genuine spiritual aspirants. I make no such claim, but this is what I have witnessed across all these people, "other is self" is a much truer tenet than even the most devout belief system. It is truer because it is, in my viewpoint, the only avenue which is not self-contradicted by the wares of anger, delusion and selfishness. In many philosophies, and thought processes, this is why the defender of life takes life, why a call for freedom invokes killing freedom. Et tu.
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  #126  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:35 AM
shivatar shivatar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiningstars
I always thought that unhappiness/suffering is related to degrees of egotism (egotism = selfishness). But the promise of a spiritual journey (as opposed to a simple belief system, or mantra) is the promise of a relinquishment of ego, of silence of mind, and ergo, more peace and happiness in one's life. Transcendence.

It depends on a persons belief system. Some think that working with the ego is the means to transcendence and higher consciousness. Some think by recognizing the ego is an illusion is the means to transcendence and higher consciousness.

Also there are systems of spirituality that end in higher consciousness, or I should say journey endlessly through stages of ever higher consciousness, and they don't focus on a silence of mind for peace and happiness. Some systems dive deeply into material pleasures with self-control and restraint to enjoy both pleasures of life, material and spirit.
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  #127  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:37 AM
firstandlast firstandlast is offline
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Written today upon the nature of the soul and its evolution to the spiritual state (it was a response to someones question about why we treat the soul as a separate thing)-- Which might provide insight--

Quote:
Let us say that for every mechanistic view we have we limit the range of cause and effect, and thus it isn't that the soul is separate but that it's range is greater and in a sense must be treated as separate until the transcendent dynamics between them are understood. It is much like we appear to have an internal aspect of us and external aspect of us, because we don't understand how they are the same thing in the transcendent dynamics that make them one thing which causes us to be unconscious of what is occurring in one when we are focused on the other. If the dynamics are understood as a whole, you would be conscious of both simultaneously rather than more conscious of one and more unconscious of the other.

That being said you must understand the basis of all things to understand the soul, and that is that the soul is the definition of self in relation to all other selves we move through and that moves through us. That is our soul is our origin point in relation to the creation of all being.

You can understand the Holy Spirit like this, if I was me and then suddenly I was you, I would not know; because I would go from my memories to yours. I would believe I am me in one moment, and than I would believe I was you in another. Without a transitional mechanism, process, or story from point a to point b. I could not understand that I was me, and became you. This in a sense is the Holy Spirit, it is that spirit animating each of us, but allowing us our own experience, and it is that soul provides an order of relationships that weave our perspectives as separate so that we can understand ourselves as individual beings working together. The soul is your experience in its entirety and it is unique in relation to all other souls—

Now, because the origin of our soul must develop the perspective itself you get the evolution of experience through the different kingdoms of being starting by mineral, which have an experience entirely different than us, but are represented in our world because we share this being. That is by the time we get to the point to evolve into the spiritual kingdom from the animal human kingdom we are something of muddy waters filled with the scum of life or mucus of thought.

Gnosis, allows us to let this energy of our soul, not move based on our own preconceived notions but by allowing it to pass by in a natural manner reorientate itself to its original condition thus appearing to us often as spiritual knowledge, but truly just becoming the original magnetic orbital resonance that we are and arrange our being according to the origin of our soul to the relationship of every other being which is the state of the perfect order in heaven, or at least a contribution to helping it manifest itself here in our density of perspective which allows us to feel so separate.

By becoming a conductive material we reach enlightenment which allows the energy that moves through us to pass through undisturbed which helps the rest of being move closer to their own being, while at the same time not disturbing our own being. Illumination is when we understand our spirit and begin allowing that energetic essence or pattern we are to begin spreading beyond ourselves and into the greater personality that exists in everything (that is when you reconcile inside and outside you deal with the mind of God in which you are a personality in the greater personality and can begin extending your personality beyond the confines of your body into your perspective which is more shared in objective reality and prepares you to have greater influence and identity beyond normal human notions)
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  #128  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:43 AM
shiningstars shiningstars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivatar
It depends on a persons belief system. Some think that working with the ego is the means to transcendence and higher consciousness. Some think by recognizing the ego is an illusion is the means to transcendence and higher consciousness.

Hi shivatar,

Transcendence is transcendence of lower (egoic) mind, of limited knowledge, of coarse elements - and I further doubt that transcendence depends on belief systems.

What I believe is that there many ways to live and approach life, and countless belief systems, but as to what transcendent spirituality is about, well, see Jyotir's posts, for one.

shiningstars
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  #129  
Old 15-02-2017, 07:36 PM
shivatar shivatar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstandlast
Written today upon the nature of the soul and its evolution to the spiritual state (it was a response to someones question about why we treat the soul as a separate thing)-- Which might provide insight--


Wow that's some good stuff.
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  #130  
Old 15-02-2017, 07:38 PM
shivatar shivatar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiningstars
Hi shivatar,

Transcendence is transcendence of lower (egoic) mind, of limited knowledge, of coarse elements - and I further doubt that transcendence depends on belief systems.

What I believe is that there many ways to live and approach life, and countless belief systems, but as to what transcendent spirituality is about, well, see Jyotir's posts, for one.

shiningstars


I'm good on reading Jyotirs posts, thanks for the advice tho
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