Spanda Karikas - for Jonesboy

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

It's up to each individual if they need a guru or not, you don't always have to follow like sheep... I am posting about SK ok.... there are many many people who have found their own way and are more advanced than the so called ' guru ' I have met many. You have Bindu who has realized that everyone and everything is divine, now thats very advanced.... a perfect insight.

Again you are not adding value but posting the same thing you post everywhere.

People can believe differently than you. That is why we have different sections so that people can talk about those shared beliefs. KS is all about the divine guru and you calling people sheep is an insult.

You do this all the time in the Buddhist section. I am again asking you to stay on topic and not post your Sky beliefs but study KS and post within that framework.. as per the topic.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Again you are not adding value but posting the same thing you post everywhere.

People can believe differently than you. That is why we have different sections so that people can talk about those shared beliefs. KS is all about the divine guru and you calling people sheep is an insult.

You do this all the time in the Buddhist section. I am again asking you to stay on topic and not post your Sky beliefs but study KS and post within that framework.. as per the topic.

You do exactly the same all over the site promoting your ' party piece ' or guru adoration. Some need a guru.... others don't, end of story.
You just offered Bindu your ' part piece ' in your chat or via e-mail what does that have to do with KS , as Bindu can see that all is divine then what more is needed.... nothing ( regarding divine ) of course.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

You do exactly the same all over the site promoting your ' party piece ' or guru adoration. Some need a guru.... others don't, end of story.
You just offered Bindu your ' part piece ' in your chat or via e-mail what does that have to do with KS , as Bindu can see that all is divine then what more is needed.... nothing ( regarding divine ) of course.

I talk in Buddhism within it's tradition. Buddhism is a guru based system.

KS is a guru based system. If you don't believe in guru's that is fine but you tend to make fun of others that find great value in them and that is very wrong.

Bindu and I were talking about divine beings and how that can be experienced. I was offering to demonstrate.. not just talk about it. You would think that would have more value. I also think you are putting words in Bindu's mouth.

Again if you are going to continue to post, please post within the KS framework.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I talk in Buddhism within it's tradition. Buddhism is a guru based system.

KS is a guru based system. If you don't believe in guru's that is fine but you tend to make fun of others that find great value in them and that is very wrong.

Bindu and I were talking about divine beings and how that can be experienced. I was offering to demonstrate.. not just talk about it. You would think that would have more value. I also think you are putting words in Bindu's mouth.

Again if you are going to continue to post, please post within the KS framework.

' Offering to demonstrate '..... I think he alreadys knows
I am not putting words in anybodys mouth, that comes from your mind, neither do I say that nobody needs a guru.... Here I will repeat again...
Some people need a guru, others don't... it's a personal decision. I will stand by that as I know people who don't know what a guru is but have realized what is what themselves, alone, self realization.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

' Offering to demonstrate '..... I think he alreadys knows
I am not putting words in anybodys mouth, that comes from your mind, neither do I say that nobody needs a guru.... Here I will repeat again...
Some people need a guru, others don't... it's a personal decision. I will stand by that as I know people who don't know what a guru is but have realized what is what themselves, alone, self realization.

Sky,

Please go away. How many times have we had this same conversation. You don't believe in any of this so why are you participating?

Originally Posted by sky123

It's up to each individual if they need a guru or not, you don't always have to follow like sheep... I am posting about SK ok.... there are many many people who have found their own way and are more advanced than the so called ' guru ' :smile: I have met many. You have Bindu who has realized that everyone and everything is divine, now thats very advanced.... a perfect insight.

You keep putting words into peoples mouth.

You have Bindu who has realized that everyone and everything is divine, now thats very advanced.... a perfect insight.

You said that not Bindu.

You just offered Bindu your ' part piece ' in your chat or via e-mail what does that have to do with KS , as Bindu can see that all is divine then what more is needed.... nothing ( regarding divine ) of course

Again, Bindu never said anything like that. Just you. Bindu talked about having a guru.. not that he is a sheep for having one.

Again the conversation isn't even about guru's and we all know how you feel about them.

Your comments here:

They are realized teachings from a realized master. The book is from the student of the realized master. Sharing what he was taught. Traditions are not make up your own stuff or your own understanding of a text.

It would be one thing if you were willing to learn from a different perspective but you are not. You don't even understand or believe how the teachings are passed down within a tradition.

You are sharing your beliefs and putting down everything that is KS and what this topic is about.

Please move on.

[sky]

Spanda is often called sphuratta, the ‘scintillating pulse’ of the Supreme Light*which continuously trembles within its own incandescence. This very vibration*makes up the totality of all beings. Thus the Universal Spanda blissfully vibrates*as all aspects of the Self. Even ‘negative’ feelings and thoughts are part of Spanda;*when it contracts into the form of negative thoughts and feelings, these*are used as a spring-board to move into an expanded state, thus*completing the dance of life.

Now this makes sense, even negative thoughts and feelings are steps in the dance

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Sky,

Please go away. How many times have we had this same conversation. You don't believe in any of this so why are you participating?



You keep putting words into peoples mouth.



You said that not Bindu.



Again, Bindu never said anything like that. Just you. Bindu talked about having a guru.. not that he is a sheep for having one.

Again the conversation isn't even about guru's and we all know how you feel about them.

Your comments here:



They are realized teachings from a realized master. The book is from the student of the realized master. Sharing what he was taught. Traditions are not make up your own stuff or your own understanding of a text.

It would be one thing if you were willing to learn from a different perspective but you are not. You don't even understand or believe how the teachings are passed down within a tradition.

You are sharing your beliefs and putting down everything that is KS and what this topic is about.

Please move on.

Some people need a guru... others don't...
I never said Bindu is a sheep, that came from you again, I said you don't have to follow like sheep, meaning that because some follow gurus doesn't mean everyone has to do the same... I am not putting anyone down, all this negativity comes directly from you... mybe you would benefit from a guru lol....

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Spanda is often called sphuratta, the ‘scintillating pulse’ of the Supreme Light*which continuously trembles within its own incandescence. This very vibration*makes up the totality of all beings. Thus the Universal Spanda blissfully vibrates*as all aspects of the Self. Even ‘negative’ feelings and thoughts are part of Spanda;*when it contracts into the form of negative thoughts and feelings, these*are used as a spring-board to move into an expanded state, thus*completing the dance of life.

Now this makes sense, even negative thoughts and feelings are steps in the dance

You have a link to that or a page reference if you are getting it from the book?

Here is where you got that quote from: http://shaivayoga.com/Writings_files..._Vibration.pdf

I would encourage you to find the book and the correct translation.. it is a very good book.

Also, that is not an accepted view on Spanda or an accepted translation.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Some people need a guru... others don't...
I never said Bindu is a sheep, that came from you again, I said you don't have to follow like sheep, meaning that because some follow gurus doesn't mean everyone has to do the same... I am not putting anyone down, all this negativity comes directly from you... mybe you would benefit from a guru lol....

It is your quote sky.. I didn't say it.

Also nobody is going on about the need for a guru. Again that is all you and off topic.

Maybe you should start your own guru thread and enjoy the conversation.

I have asked you multiple times to stay on topic and I have reported you to admin.

Please stay out of this thread.. also when quoting text please provide a reference...

[jonesboy]

For those interested

From the Triadic Heart of Siva.

Pg 118.

In the same text he gives a clear definition of spanda:



The nature of such a consciousness is its capacity for self-referral, and because

of that, there always arises a spontaneous sound (dhvani) which is termed

the supreme, the great Heart. That self-consciousness in the Heart in which

the entire universe without remainder is dissolved, present at the beginning

and at the end of perception of objects, is called in the authoritative texts the

vibration (spanda), and more precisely, the universal vibration (samanyaspanda),

and its nature is an overflowing in the Self. For that vibration, which

is a slight motion of a special kind, a unique vibrating light, is the wave of

the ocean of consciousness, without which there is no consciousness at all.

For the character of the ocean is that it is sometimes filled with waves and

sometimes waveless. This consciousness is the essence of all. The insentient

universe has consciousness as its essence, because its very foundation is

dependent on that, and its essence is the great Heart.



The silence of the Supreme is shot through with a creative tension,

a primordial urge, an impelling force. This force is the sakti, the power

of the Ultimate, which sets up an agitation (ghurnana), even a disturbance

(ksobha), which is responsible for the wave motion within the absolute.

Thus, the absolute is continually arising into waves which create the slight

and imperceptible movement or vibration that characterizes consciousness,

and which allows consciousness to be the foundation and essence of all

manifest reality.

It is important to emphasize that this movement occurs within the

fundamental core of the Ultimate: it forms the essential feature of Ultimate

reality according to the non-dual Kashmir Shaiva tradition. It can in no

way jeopardize the status of the Ultimate as absolute. To wish to define

the Ultimate reality as a silence that transcends all characterizations

would be to distort and demote the absolute into a powerless and useless

ultimate. Such an ultimate would be totally appeased (Santa), but would

also be incapable of serving as the essence of the finite. The spanda, the

internal movement of the Heart of Siva, rescues the absolute from a kind

of pristine but static inertia.