Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Happiness

"There are no limitations to the self. You are only limited by your beliefs. Your beliefs create your reality."

While I'd like to accept these statements as true, I've found 2 counterarguments to them.

1. If these statements are true, then I would want to be luxuriously self-indulgent. I would want to eat all the chocolate and delicious food that I want and not get fat. I would want to have a great body, muscular with six-pack abs, without spending much time and effort working out or watching my diet. I would want to get money without working for it. I would want to get all the sex I want without getting tired and with whomever I want without getting rejected. But this is not how the world works: if I eat too much, I get fat; I won't get a great body without working out; I won't get any money if I don't work for it; I can't have sex as frequently as I want or with whomever I want. So if these statements are true, why can't I get all these things that I want?

2. Why would people who overestimate their ability fail? There is no shortage in the world of incidents of people who overestimate their ability but fail miserably in whatever they set out to do. These people overly believe in their ability, and very often they themselves are the only ones unaware of their overestimation and may even refuse to listen to the advice of their friends. If they have such strong belief in their ability, why then would they fail if "your beliefs create your reality"?

3. Also, I see a problem that these statements can cause if they are true: they can be applied in ways that are unscientific and unfair. It is basic science that if I consume more calories than I burn, I get fat. So if I can, just by believing so, wish away all the extra calories after eating, then doesn't this run contrary to established scientific fact? So if I can, just by believing so, influence/determine the outcome of a scientific experiment or measurement on a whim, then wouldn't it be meaningless to conduct any scientific experiment or measurement? And if scientific experiments and measurements are meaningless, how could it be possible that science makes technological advancement and improves our lives? Also, does "your beliefs create your reality" mean that if I believe that global warming is fake news, then the Earth will not undergo global warming? So would people who do not believe in global warming and therefore continue to pollute the planet shift themselves to a universe where there is no global warming? So if you did something wrong or illegal, could you wish away the consequences, such as a fine or a jail term, simply by believing strongly that you won't get them? If so, then these statements not only go against science, but also justice.

Changing your mind is a good source to change the way you perceive yourself and reality outside yourself. But there is always more..if one notices life playing out in so many ways it does play out.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Happiness

"There are no limitations to the self. You are only limited by your beliefs. Your beliefs create your reality."

While I'd like to accept these statements as true, I've found 2 counterarguments to them.

1. If these statements are true, then I would want to be luxuriously self-indulgent. I would want to eat all the chocolate and delicious food that I want and not get fat. . I would want to have a great body, muscular with six-pack abs, without spending much time and effort working out or watching my diet. I would want to get money without working for it. I would want to get all the sex I want without getting tired and with whomever I want without getting rejected. But this is not how the world works: if I eat too much, I get fat; I won't get a great body without working out; I won't get any money if I don't work for it; I can't have sex as frequently as I want or with whomever I want. So if these statements are true, why can't I get all these things that I want?

2. Why would people who overestimate their ability fail?

Belief.

Do you know anyone who believes in the out of ordinary case given, I've alway noticed the words if one believes one could accomplish anything. In a sense you can create physical changes through exercise which is the will to, but not perfection of the outside... That transformation would have to be at a molecular level that is beyond the conscious. In a way you're saying everyone believes which is false, when they don't and because no one's done it it thus proves no one has. I'd like to use spiritual text as it is suppose to contain supposed occurrences, certain individuals are said to have physically ascended, indeed these kinds of super spiritual people that would qualify as believers. Did they ascend cause the above says no they did not. I don't know. I've heard it but never have seen it. 100% no? The way it is stated without the (word) if is now is called a affirmative positive writing style. Negativism is removed. Maybe, possible, unlikely..... me being evasive.....lol. Never, ever?

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by lemex

Belief.

Do you know anyone who believes in the out of ordinary case given, I've alway noticed the words if one believes one could accomplish anything. In a sense you can create physical changes through exercise which is the will to, but not perfection of the outside... That transformation would have to be at a molecular level that is beyond the conscious. In a way you're saying everyone believes which is false, when they don't and because no one's done it it thus proves no one has. I'd like to use spiritual text as it is suppose to contain supposed occurrences, certain individuals are said to have physically ascended, indeed these kinds of super spiritual people that would qualify as believers. Did they ascend cause the above says no they did not. I don't know. I've heard it but never have seen it. 100% no? The way it is stated without the (word) if is now is called a affirmative positive writing style. Negativism is removed. Maybe, possible, unlikely..... me being evasive.....lol. Never, ever?

I appreciate this perspective.

The honest deepest part of me answering essentially says what Tim White used to say on the TV show "Sightings".

"no mystery is closed, to an open mind"

I'm open to any concept or ideas however I wouldn't advise anyone to base their lives on such tales - especially as you say without actual proof.

The creating reality notion is similar to the Loch Ness monster, Bigfoot or UFO's for me - I want them all to be real - I'm open to them but I have to keep one foot in this reality otherwise I might not notice that wonderful bright light is actually a freight train ...

\m/\m/

[Moonglow]

Hello,

The discussion brings this to mind.

If no effort on my part to make it happen, then does not matter how much I believe, it ain't gonna happen.

Some things just not built to do. I can fly, by taking an airplane to do so, or a glider. On my own, no. I accept this. But, someone or group did not so developed ways to glide and fly using others means. Sometimes takes creating new ways to make it happen.

May desire a business of my own. If preparations to learn the business is not taken and interest in my business is not there, well most likely won't go far.

Some things take time to develop, to grow, to become. Will say takes a belief in myself, but also being real. Knowing my strengths, my shortcomings, and willing to fail and get up, to keep going.

Nothing is a given. Takes more then wishful thinking and is anything guaranteed? Sometimes it takes a bit of a risk, but not to lose ones good sense in the matter and knowing ones own limitations, IMO.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Raziel

I know for a fact that we all share the same reality - if any of us stood in front of a moving train we would die. If any of us went without water ... we would die ..

We look at the same reality from various angles but we are all bound by the same laws or gravity etc.

Salvia is a drug - a less potent type of vision quest type of experience.

Anything that is 2nd hand information is less reliable than actual repeatable experience.

The SETH material writer had an odd childhood, she also charged for personal Seth sessions - do you not see warning signs there?

Sorry, there's some misinformation in your post, and something in your reply that just put me off. I'm pushing this out of my reality ...

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Sorry, there's some misinformation in your post, and something in your reply that just put me off. I'm pushing this out of my reality ...

Information .. at your fingertips if you choose to look.

Seth material writer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Roberts

Salvia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_divinorum

Physics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_law

2nd hand accounts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_M%C3%BCnsterberg

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/seco...%20information

~

But yeah tell Krang I said hi & I miss him

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimens..._Ninja_Turtles)

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Raziel

I know for a fact that we all share the same reality - if any of us stood in front of a moving train we would die. If any of us went without water ... we would die ..

We look at the same reality from various angles but we are all bound by the same laws or gravity etc.

Salvia is a drug - a less potent type of vision quest type of experience.

Anything that is 2nd hand information is less reliable than actual repeatable experience.

The SETH material writer had an odd childhood, she also charged for personal Seth sessions - do you not see warning signs there?

Yes, we each have our own subjective experience within a shared objective reality, but all the known laws of physics can be transcended.

For example, there is sufficient anecdotal evidence to show that levitation is a human ability, thus negating the laws of gravity as currently understood. Of course, very few humans develop this ability, so the evidence remains anecdotal, and those who can levitate have no interest in becoming a guinea pig in some laboratory. The ability to levitate is not contrary to the laws of physics, it simply demonstrates that there are other universal laws which have not yet been discovered by science. But even science is discovering that using magnetic fields in certain ways causes objects to levitate.

I've read some of the Seth material but never really got into it. Regarding Jane Robert's childhood (the Seth material), many people have odd childhoods which does not invalidate later achievements. And what is wrong with charging for personal Seth sessions - we all have to earn money to pay the bills? It is a popular idea that any kind of higher knowledge should be made available for free, but it seems reasonable to charge people for one's time and energy. Would you work for nothing?

Peace.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Yes, we each have our own subjective experience within a shared objective reality, but all the known laws of physics can be transcended.

For example, there is sufficient anecdotal evidence to show that levitation is a human ability, thus negating the laws of gravity as currently understood. Of course, very few humans develop this ability, so the evidence remains anecdotal, and those who can levitate have no interest in becoming a guinea pig in some laboratory. The ability to levitate is not contrary to the laws of physics, it simply demonstrates that there are other universal laws which have not yet been discovered by science. But even science is discovering that using magnetic fields in certain ways causes objects to levitate.

I've read some of the Seth material but never really got into it. Regarding Jane Robert's childhood (the Seth material), many people have odd childhoods which does not invalidate later achievements. And what is wrong with charging for personal Seth sessions - we all have to earn money to pay the bills? It is a popular idea that any kind of higher knowledge should be made available for free, but it seems reasonable to charge people for one's time and energy. Would you work for nothing?

Peace.

We can agree to disagree.

~

The author released 25 books ..

Levitation would be used as a sign of spiritual talent in developing nations therefore a tool to gain power. Hell, two headed calves or frogs bring fame to people - don't see how they would choose to keep it a secret.

Highly suspicious that only men like David Blaine ever use it.

No mystery is closed to an open mind - show be reasonable proof & I'll reconsider my stance.

The Gorilla was believed to be a myth until fairly recently historically speaking yet once proof emerged there was little choice but to accept it as fact. Same goes for the Panda.

All I ask for is evidence.
.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Happiness

"There are no limitations to the self. You are only limited by your beliefs. Your beliefs create your reality."

While I'd like to accept these statements as true, I've found 2 counterarguments to them.

1. If these statements are true, then I would want to be luxuriously self-indulgent. I would want to eat all the chocolate and delicious food that I want and not get fat. I would want to have a great body, muscular with six-pack abs, without spending much time and effort working out or watching my diet. I would want to get money without working for it. I would want to get all the sex I want without getting tired and with whomever I want without getting rejected. But this is not how the world works: if I eat too much, I get fat; I won't get a great body without working out; I won't get any money if I don't work for it; I can't have sex as frequently as I want or with whomever I want. So if these statements are true, why can't I get all these things that I want?

2. Why would people who overestimate their ability fail? There is no shortage in the world of incidents of people who overestimate their ability but fail miserably in whatever they set out to do. These people overly believe in their ability, and very often they themselves are the only ones unaware of their overestimation and may even refuse to listen to the advice of their friends. If they have such strong belief in their ability, why then would they fail if "your beliefs create your reality"?

3. Also, I see a problem that these statements can cause if they are true: they can be applied in ways that are unscientific and unfair. It is basic science that if I consume more calories than I burn, I get fat. So if I can, just by believing so, wish away all the extra calories after eating, then doesn't this run contrary to established scientific fact? So if I can, just by believing so, influence/determine the outcome of a scientific experiment or measurement on a whim, then wouldn't it be meaningless to conduct any scientific experiment or measurement? And if scientific experiments and measurements are meaningless, how could it be possible that science makes technological advancement and improves our lives? Also, does "your beliefs create your reality" mean that if I believe that global warming is fake news, then the Earth will not undergo global warming? So would people who do not believe in global warming and therefore continue to pollute the planet shift themselves to a universe where there is no global warming? So if you did something wrong or illegal, could you wish away the consequences, such as a fine or a jail term, simply by believing strongly that you won't get them? If so, then these statements not only go against science, but also justice.

In a way, it is totally self-indulgent, being that yes, your thoughts and beliefs create your own reality, and if you are fully prepared to exist wholly within that reality you create for yourself, any other 'reality' will not matter.

I have this thing, whereby my subconscious mind totally convinces my physical brain that stuff is happening to my body, despite there being nothing wrong with my physical body at all, but my brain and my whole nervous system reacts as if there is...and it's downright annoying to the max.

For the past week, I've had all the symptoms of the flu...complete with coughing, mucous, a sore throat, painful muscles and limbs, sneezing, cold sweats and chills...and so, I took myself off to the quack, being unable to cope with the symptoms anymore. All the tests proved that I was 'normal' in every way, shape and form and I did not have the flu or even a cold, for that matter...and all I could say was "If I do not have any infection, any allergy, any measurable symptoms...why am I still having them?" and of course, the quack couldn't answer...so it was easier to believe I had the flu regardless and the doctor was wrong...and all the tests were, of course, wrong also.

It's like how the physical body reacts in the case of a 'phantom pregnancy' or 'hysterical blindness/deafness'...in the latter case, there's nothing wrong with the eyes, or the ears, or signals getting through...but one still cannot see or hear anything anyway...but try and get a doctor to give a medical certificate to convince a third party that you have an 'illness' that cannot BE diagnosed! there's absolutely no difference between "I cannot find anything wrong" and "you're just making it all up" and so, while, in my reality, according to my experiences, thoughts, beliefs and symptoms, I have the flu...according to the doctor and anybody else OUTSIDE my reality world, my personal 'little universe'...I do not because they believe I do not have the flu, despite my beliefs that I do. It's the same with spirituality, believing in God...whatever you like to apply this to.

Then, of course, others will say "you are being delusional" and I will say "delusional or not, I still have the flu...so, if you can cure my influenza by curing my delusion...I'm open to that...just give me a few placebos...a few sugar pills and point me in the direction of the nearest 'witch doctor' or a priest, so that this demon can be exorcised which makes me sick without having any symptoms OF the sickness...please do so...go ahead...make my life" and will they do that? of COURSE not! It's up to ME to 'uncreate' the reality I have created for myself...nobody else can do it for me.

This is why I believe that we create our own reality, because if we are also creating the reality for another person, that would be somewhere in the 'fine print' of it...but alas and alack, it is not.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

In a way, it is totally self-indulgent, being that yes, your thoughts and beliefs create your own reality, and if you are fully prepared to exist wholly within that reality you create for yourself, any other 'reality' will not matter.

Yep. What (if) there are two states, a both wanting and not wanting happening at the same time and that is the total. Choice in flux. A part of the person that says yes, a part of the person that says no.