Energy in Buddhism

[running]

whats up for sale today.

be a good boy or girl as i see what is good. this is being sold as not having an ego. of course it is an ego. because somebody is deciding! come on folks. this is not like a mystery.

have emotions and heaven forbid A PREFERNCE. considered as having an ego. walk around like nothing matters and close down your second chakra to shut off ones ability to have emotions. considered having no ego. closing up the second chakra will no doubt keep one from the bliss while having an emotion. if thats not counterproductive i dont know what is. but you get a pat on the back for being a good boy or girl and get a no ego badge.

bliss and silence has nothing to do with any of this. this ego and no ego stuff comes from the the minds of people.

[running]

2nd chakra is how one feels its way and gives one the ability to expereince not just feeling but emotions. many people intentionally shut it down. not just in the no ego religion but others as well and knowingly do so. to expereince less of such. their choice.

avoidance of preferences. avoidance of emotions. and so on is a way to shut it down. then one can't expereince bliss through preferences and emotions. cause there is no longer room to do so.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

A clear healthy expression of revolting, of being appalled by even the thought of something.

In Buddhism one of the 3 aspects of the Primordial State is Clarity.



You are saying if you have been working hard all week and someone for instance is in your home and have been sitting on their *** all week eating your food and not doing anything in the house.. a spouse, a child perhaps it is perfectly fine to express your frustration with them. It is a healthy expression of your feelings.

Buddhism would teach your frustration is your obstruction and that one can have a conversation, a much different conversation without the expression of your obstruction getting in the way.

Maybe you look with an open heart, maybe they are depressed and you have missed it.

Maybe it is one of your children. You don't need to yell at your children to teach them, to encourage them.

I didn't read the rest of your post because after the first part.. well...

Your defending your position which is fine by me.

I don’t need too.



We can reveal lots of scenarios either way, either see it.

And your also showing that you dismiss things when you don’t like what you see..

Which is also fine, it just shows me your still avoiding something in yourself. “Look with an open heart you say?”

I’m looking through mine open in this moment noticing yours, which is just a natural extension when ones own is open and noticing..

Containing yourself and playing the ‘Good Samaritan or Martyr’ because the scriptures or teachings say so, can be like a time bomb ready to explode.


Have you ever bear witness to someone who had been ‘a good boy’ all his life, doing the ‘right thing’ saying the right thing, but deep down in his core his rage at his father sits like an earthquake waiting to erupt? He doesn’t even see it, you see it, feel it, notice it flowing through everything he tries to hide behind. Is that healthy for his children and his spouse or is he subjecting them with his own containment, in his own ignorance to keep the lid on things and do ‘the right thing’? Buddhism may well tell one to do things a certain way, but to truly know yourself no amount of teaching is going to contain that which is held in you, continuing to hold it in place by playing all those roles that I’ve mentikned only continue to contain you.

Do you subject your family to your rage hidden or not? No. In an ideal world where everyone is in clarity and aware, it’s the perfect outcome to not subject them to your ‘stuff’ Are you still subjecting your family to what’s hidden? Yes you are, even if you don’t think you are. It’s all flowing through as containment, especially for those sensitive and aware of its presence.

So emotions do require a ‘healthy’ safe outlet to release the forces containing oneself. You don’t want to become a pressure cooker, because you’d never know when it might blow its own lid and you never know with whom. If your livid on the inside and playing guru on the outer, that’s just extremely contradictory imo. So.. clear your own obstructions before teaching others perhaps?





You can fake it till you make it, but that still causes damage. Just we can’t always see it directly..

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

This is where you and all spiritual traditions diverge.. fyi..

That we are merged with a human body? All religions, traditions, or beliefs that state we survive the death of the body are stating we are merged with the human body in some way, that the body is not us. They are stating we enter it around birth and leave it around death.

Here is a brief sentence about the Tibetan Buddhism tradition...

According to Tibetan tradition, after death and before one's next birth, when one's consciousness is not yet connected with a physical body,

Connected, merged... same thing.

Some more details of this connecting...

I start with a gentle probe ... defining
connections ... gaps ... every mind is different.
while I trace the passages ... that's usual ... until there is familiarization my tracing is done carefully.
I learn the brain wave patterns of the baby.
How this person translates signals. Its capacity. No two children are the same.
It's a melding. There is an ... emptiness before my arrival which I fill to make the baby whole.
We expand what is there.
Every brain has a wave pattern-it's like a fingerprint
the memories of all your past lives and your life in
the spirit world blocked out by amnesia That starts after birth.
this information is locked deep inside me and that's the way it's
supposed to be

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

You are missing the point.. I quoted what clarity is..

You see flowers.. to a Buddha they are all perfect as they are.

The ego mind would say, I don't like the yellow ones, the older ones, etc. etc..

If you are gathering flowers for a dinner table the ego mind would pick the ones based on discrimination.. likes and dislikes. The Buddha would choose ones based on utility of function but not based on likes or dislikes because they are all perfect.

Isn’t Buddha still choosing in your view of him. Utility of function? What does that mean?
If everything is in its own perfection why clear obstructions?

Why not be present with what is in clarity of your own being and be open to it?

It all comes back to you..what your doing, quoting and seeing..it will lead you to yourself.

So where are you in your perfection? Your own obstructions? Your need and desires?


Where’s your clarity in all this consistent mish mash of ideas your presenting.


I’m standing right here, curious, interested and open to have you land yourself on the page as you, nothing more.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by running

whats up for sale today.

be a good boy or girl as i see what is good. this is being sold as not having an ego. of course it is an ego. because somebody is deciding! come on folks. this is not like a mystery.

have emotions and heaven forbid A PREFERNCE. considered as having an ego. walk around like nothing matters and close down your second chakra to shut off ones ability to have emotions. considered having no ego. closing up the second chakra will no doubt keep one from the bliss while having an emotion. if thats not counterproductive i dont know what is. but you get a pat on the back for being a good boy or girl and get a no ego badge.

bliss and silence has nothing to do with any of this. this ego and no ego stuff comes from the the minds of people.

Yea... just constructing a person who is Buddha, but I was taught that Buddha is the quality of enlightenment and there is no person who is Buddha. That doesn't mean there is no personality. It just means there's no entity that endures time as a changing person and no person who becomes anything. In Buddhism the delusion of self is a 'fetter' (fetters ain't good), so it makes no sense to say there is a self who becomes a Buddha.



But there is Nirvana, the quality of enlightenment. It's just that no one is there to become enlightened. No entity enduring time who becomes anything. There are sensations and emotions etc which are fleeting by, but the personal belief makes it seem like these are happening to 'me', and it seems like I am affected, putting 'me' within the action/reaction of the kammic cycle.


Nirvana is liberation from that cycle. When you see the one who is pretending to be 'me' you realise it's a horrid panic, greed and deception. When the pretender is seen it files into a grotesque panic and rage, but the one aware is completely neutral and the pretender cannot withstand that gaze.


See all the activity which is based on the self-belief, that I can be rich, I can be happy, I can be enlightened and so forth. See how all the desires work to fabricate the self delusion and vice versa. We were taught to be still regardess of our experience, and not to seek experiences in meditation. We were taught to 'just observe' and let nature be as it is. Leave it to change just as it already does. That means the 'me' cannot continue to try to 'make it as I want it to be', which means it cannot continue becoming through the action/reaction processes of rebirth.



Indeed the emotions will come and go and the deepest of those repressed things will be left to be as just they are, because it's simply true that they 'feel like this'. The urge to make it otherwise will cease, and that's how everything is set free.



Have you have a favorite chair and your favorite warm mug and your favorite television show, as well as all the things you like less. That's just the way we are conditioned and we can't do anything about it. That too changes over time. You used to love your sippy cup and Bugs Bunny. Now you like your silly mug and CSI. There's nothing you can do. Try to choose it not to be your favorite mug and you'll find that you cannot. Try to make your preference to coffee over tea into teas over coffee. You cannot. We have to like and dislike what we do as we are condtioned to, and if we were to imagine a Buddha is a different person who has no likes and dislikes, then we fall into the delusion of self imagery.



What we are ready to accept is, the one aware sees all things equally with the purity of love, and this must be something to do with the 'blss and silence' as you word it.

[winter light]

Originally Posted by running

2nd chakra is how one feels its way and gives one the ability to expereince not just feeling but emotions. many people intentionally shut it down. not just in the no ego religion but others as well and knowingly do so. to expereince less of such. their choice.

avoidance of preferences. avoidance of emotions. and so on is a way to shut it down. then one can't expereince bliss through preferences and emotions. cause there is no longer room to do so.

I see it in this way also. When someone comes from a self-denial perspective I experience it as a dissociation. It is as if their presence disappears and there is no longer anyone there. Initially it causes me to collapse into a emotional lonely state of being. What has occurred is an experience of betrayal. As there is implicit expectation that the other would be present.

In my more sane moments I may catch this and turn this inward and reflect and recover. There is a kind of grief process where I realize and accept and reconcile that the other person is not present. Then I can reset my expectations accordingly for the relationship. And move on from there.

Other times the trigger goes deep and an unconscious cascade of reaction begins. If that happens too quickly and strongly it is easy to get lost in emotions and loose perspective. To take it personally. Then if reaction goes outward it causes trouble. Frequently that is an unavoidable experience and must be accepted also. It is how I learn and I'm only human. And in reality such a projection is never personal. The other person really is not present. And if I am not careful neither am I.

To me that is the nature of suffering. The impersonal disconnect that seems to be true. In the end it is just an idea but it causes real hardship until that is realized.

The other aspect is context. In certain context there are no issues. Someone can be your friend and connected one moment and lost the next. What changed? Is it just me or just them or is it instead a complex ongoing relationship that ebbs and flows.

And when I am actually alone, not present with another or reading their thoughts. Instead engaged in some hobby or other physical activity. A similar process exists. Except now it is just the physical and I must come to terms with what is being presented. Not fall into betrayal over something that certainly cannot be personal. In those cases it is much easier to figure out where the emotional problem originates.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

What about seeing other people though? Is everyone who posts here, no matter what they do or don't do, no matter what they post or believe, are they all perfect as they are?

To a Buddha they are all Buddha's.

Doing things like murder and rape are horrible but a Buddha knows they are trapped in the ego self, caught up in their obstructions.

Even with such people a Buddha would want to help them as he knows what they truly are even if they don't.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by running

i didn't think you were attacking me. there is nothing personal here. what you and many others are implying i find dangerous. its a major problem in the world that has gotten many people killed and discouraged from wanting anything to do with spirituality. i dont think this. i know this. why? we all know that bliss and silence is not the judge. people are. if people just knew this basic truth. the nonsense would stop. but control is what people want. not the truth. there is no emotion or thought that bliss and silence can be obstructed by. its non dual! its the programming of the mind that limitis ones capacity that obstructs. such of what is up for sale.

I find what you are saying dangerous and very, very limiting.

Bliss and silence can be experienced very quickly with meditation. You are far from done and you know that.

Bliss and silence is far, far from non-dual. You can't be one with another being, feel the trees within you, help another experience silence or help ease their suffering.

People confuse silence/quite mind with being all, all the time. It may seem that way but trust me, it gets bigger and deeper.

Aside from that I really don't get what you find dangerous.

Bliss and silence is good, no emotion, can't be obstructed, non-dual.. But say true enlightenment is beyond the ego self and it causes murder? That it is dangerous, that it makes people quit? The last one sounds like a major obstruction.. enjoy the changes the practices brings to your life.. This stuff isn't like fast food or a video game.. quick and easy..

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by running

2nd chakra is how one feels its way and gives one the ability to expereince not just feeling but emotions. many people intentionally shut it down. not just in the no ego religion but others as well and knowingly do so. to expereince less of such. their choice.

avoidance of preferences. avoidance of emotions. and so on is a way to shut it down. then one can't expereince bliss through preferences and emotions. cause there is no longer room to do so.

Avoidance of emotions is an obstruction.. so yeah.. it would be shut down.

Isn't the goal to open and clear them?

One doesn't avoid... one see's clearly without issues and fears clouding the view.

Much like seeing two people argue.. you are not caught up in it at all. You can see where they are debating over what they want and how their emotions are getting in the way. Being the 3rd party you can take the emotional attachments out of the picture and see the way forward..

In Basic Buddhism it is called opening the Heart, loving kindness.. get beyond what you are caught up and see why that other person feels so strongly or not about what they may be doing or not doing.. When one is about to do that it changes things greatly.

Have you never had a strong emotion about a person or topic and yet over time the strength of the emotion got less and less until now you may be able to even laugh at it? Why?
The goal isn't for it to take years, but to get into states of being where such things happen instantly.

Yes it is possible.