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  #61  
Old 20-11-2017, 09:25 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
You don't bring out the very worst at all, they just use you as an excuse
I'd like it if they would use other people as an excuse from time to time though...I'm getting a complex about it. lol
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  #62  
Old 20-11-2017, 09:26 PM
Khalli Khalli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
........

Why is it that I bring out the very worst in humanity?

Maybe because they see something in you that is a reflection of something in them they are running from and refusing to deal with.
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  #63  
Old 20-11-2017, 09:42 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalli
Maybe because they see something in you that is a reflection of something in them they are running from and refusing to deal with.
Yes, Khalli, I thought this too, but dismissed it because my mind didn't enjoy the luxury of over-indulgence in that thought. I guess it isn't helped by me 'holding up the mirror' all the time though and forcing others to confront those parts of themselves they do not like either.

As for what David is saying...yes, I get that. I get how I am trying to assert my own individuality and identity in spite of my 'Higher Self' but I also feel to do that, requires the entire forfeit of my own human existence as the ultimate sacrifice...sort of like, I would not be ME anymore if I were to just live and act by the Vedas...I would become the living embodiment of all that I am aware of...all that I understand...and yet, it is only through that understanding that I am made aware of how things are! and of course, you also understand now, that the way to reach me inside is NOT through asserting your ego over mine...it is by quoting a Hindu text...preferably the Rig Veda or the Shiva Sutras...but I'll take the Bhagavad Gita as an alternative...even though I am a Shaivite.

...and of course, I could always go into the whole 'solipsism mode' where, as Buddha said "with our thoughts, we make the world" and then have Wu' Chen' Eng's entire 'Journey to the West' flash before my mental sphere.

Sometimes I am the Monkey, sometimes I am the Pig...more often than not, I am the Fish who tries to rationalise my way out of every situation...whilst Tripitaka is just sitting there, shaking his head.
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  #64  
Old 20-11-2017, 10:02 PM
Molearner Molearner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
There is a 'method' - I call it 'tough-love' - in what you see as my ego-'madness' which I hope you positively appreciate someday, Mo.

I appreciate the intent which give rise to your comment, nevertheless.


davidsun,

I have often resorted to "tough love" also. It is tough in many ways...not to mention the doubtfulness of its efficacy.....:) In regards to this check out this website which includes thoughts by Anthony DeMello..........

http://www.gurteen.com/gurteen/gurte.../id/X00040172/
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  #65  
Old 20-11-2017, 10:32 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
The father shouts, "Get up, you have to go to school." Jaime says, "I don’t want to go to school." "Why not?" asks the father. "Three reasons," says Jaime. First, because it’s so dull; second, the kids tease me; and third, I hate school. And the father says, "Well, I am going to give you three reasons why you must go to school. First, because it is your duty; second, because you are forty-five years old, and third, because you are the headmaster."
LOVE IT!

Although, I am still unaware of where my "duties" lay...even though, in the Bhagavad Gita it states:

"श्री कृष्ण भगवान ने अर्जुन से कहा: आप को अपने निर्धारित कर्तव्य का पालन करने का अधिकार है, लेकिन आप कभी कर्म फल की इच्छा से कर्म मत करो (कर्म फल देने का अधिकार सिर्फ ईश्वर को है)। कर्म फल की अपेक्षा से आप कभी कर्म मत करें, न ही आप की कभी कर्म न करने में प्रवृर्ति हो (आप की हमेशा कर्म करने में प्रवृर्ति हो) ।।" (Bhagwat Gita: Chapter Two verse 47)

Perform your duty, without being attached to the fruits thereof...but if Sri Krishna is performing the duty, what duties are YOU performing anyway?

This whole 'empathy' thing, as I understand it, is to be aware of how others feel, because you have been in that same situation and you are aware of how that made you feel at the time...and yet, you cannot be aware of or 'project' your own feelings on others either...just like you don't know what another is thinking...even though you may have a fair idea of what they are thinking...but you'd be wrong.

Is it the duty of a daughter to be a daughter, or to worship the Lord?

According to my 'Higher Self'...and if I listen to my 'Higher Self'...it constantly tells me to just love and worship Shiva and ignore other people who say "unless you can feel compassion and empathy, you cannot love God"...and yet, despite the lack of feelings in one area, my love for God is still present, despite all those 'empathetic' people saying "that is not love you feel, but infatuation"...how would they know? honestly?

What is the difference between being sympathetic or compassionate and projecting your own emotions upon others?

Many people who use 'tough love' or the 'baseball bat' approach have the idea that 'sugar coating' an idea will only lead to the re-enforcement of behaviour through condoning and conditioning it...and yet how does 'tough love' work on a victim of trauma? they will only see it as 'more trauma' won't they? So, a happy medium must present itself, where one is being neither too hard, nor too soft...and before one goes fully 'gung-ho' in bringing out the 'baseball bat', they need to consider the person's past.

For those with a 'hardened heart', the way to harden it further is to apply the 'tough love' approach...ice will not melt a frozen heart, only warmth and heat will...and yet, if only others would apply the warmth, the heart wouldn't have been made stone cold in the first place...if only people could see that, but they cannot.
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  #66  
Old 20-11-2017, 11:18 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molearner
davidsun,

I have often resorted to "tough love" also. It is tough in many ways...not to mention the doubtfulness of its efficacy.....:) In regards to this check out this website which includes thoughts by Anthony DeMello..........

http://www.gurteen.com/gurteen/gurte.../id/X00040172/
There are no absolute 'sureties' (one way or the other!), aye what? You never know in advance just where an 'arrow' will land, i.e. what the result of any intentional action will be. One has to just operate 'on faith' that whatever one's intent truly is what will eventually bear 'fruit'.

Its all a dung 'shoot' (I say 'dung' because this site is rigged to automatically substitute asterisks for the four-letter word beginning with 'c' and ending with 'p'.)

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  #67  
Old 20-11-2017, 11:37 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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I guess...the whole crux of the matter rests with this.

Yesterday, I was typing stuff up on here, and my mother walks by:

Mum: "what are you doing there?"
Me: "I am typing up my thoughts on a spiritual forum"
Mum *laughs mockingly* "So, you are joining others like yourself who cannot 'get a life'...only a stupid person would type up their thoughts on a spiritual forum"

...yeah, so I am and you ALL are 'stupid people' according to her...so how does that make YOU feel?

She goes on... "people on the internet are not REAL...you can't have real relationships...real friends online...WAKE UP...smell the ROSES and stop looking at pictures of them, imagining how they will smell".

So, people who post on internet forums aren't real and living in an 'imaginary world'...make you all feel warm, cosy and secure there?

If I were to live according to my 'higher self' who has also REPEATEDLY insisted that I don't renew my ISP subscription and give SF a miss because it is entirely "beneath my level of awareness/existence" then I would not be here...and those other people who have also realised this, would not be here...and all of those people who think/believe they are in a position to 'help' or 'offer advice' because their EGO says it is 'their duty' would not be here either and there would be absolutely no rhyme nor reason for 'spiritual internet fora' to exist whatsoever.

Then of course, we wonder...if we are feeling a strong emotion like 'resentment' or 'annoyance' or 'frustration' is it better to express it, and have others say "drink some cement and harden the hell up" or keep it hidden within, so the negative words and behaviours of others will do nothing, save to re-enforce that emotion through the practical application thereof?

Then, of course it leads such people who have issues in their lives onto psychiatrist couches, because they are PAID to listen without being judgmental and sometimes, I wonder if I said to a person or too a friend; "If I give you $50, would you be able to listen to me and offer your support without judging me or casting aspersions?" and they'd probably find a way because the incentive to do so is there because it benefits THEM by doing so.

I have been reading threads on here...this one, the "Is reality perfect" one and the "Enough of the sweetie-pie spirituality" one...and it all boils down to exactly the same thing...and yet, I am an Aghori, but if I live fully and totally AS an Aghori, it will destroy the last shred of humanity I have...and being 'sympathetic' would not be an issue, because we all know and are aware that the majority of people are totally ignorant and deluded for the most part, so whatever they have to say about anything doesn't matter anyway.

Still, there are those who rabbit on about 'compassion' and 'sympathy/empathy' from behind their keyboards, whilst sipping Evian, eating the latest in vegan cuisine, going to their naturopath once a week, buying whatever the latest and best 'new-age book' is on offer...they have all these high ideals about how they can make the world a 'better place'...they may even write a few blogs, articles or even publish a book themselves...but you know, deep inside, it is eating them up...making them feel as guilty as hell because of the age-old adage:

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  #68  
Old 20-11-2017, 11:38 PM
dream jo dream jo is offline
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o derar i no fealin i do why cnt i be norml
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  #69  
Old 20-11-2017, 11:39 PM
dream jo dream jo is offline
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not of mom off oftrs in genrl u cud say
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  #70  
Old 20-11-2017, 11:44 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
This whole 'empathy' thing, as I understand it, is to be aware of how others feel, because you have been in that same situation and you are aware of how that made you feel at the time...and yet, you cannot be aware of or 'project' your own feelings on others either...just like you don't know what another is thinking...even though you may have a fair idea of what they are thinking...but you'd be wrong.
I think yo are being overly self-indulgent, and that that isn't truly worshiping God as you claim and 'comfort' your self by believing that's what you are doing. For one thing, your mother is (I believe ) an expression of THE Life-Shiva-Shakti-'Force' - albeit a 'problematic' one designed (and agreed to in advance, IMO) to make you 'stretch' your 'self' beyond its past-life 'comfort' zones, which you keep retreating into (and so 'failing' to 'stretch' beyond). Even if that;s not 'accurate' in terms of the real truth, I trust you will someday come to appreciate that that is the 'best' I can think to 'give' you (as well as what I think you most 'need' to 'receive' at this (present!) point in your (hopefully!) developmental (in due course at least) journey..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
What is the difference between being sympathetic or compassionate and projecting your own emotions upon others?
These often commingle - which 'fact' predominates depends on whether your motivation is selfish or unselfish, or more one than the other, I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Many people who use 'tough love' or the 'baseball bat' approach have the idea that 'sugar coating' an idea will only lead to the re-enforcement of behaviour through condoning and conditioning it...and yet how does 'tough love' work on a victim of trauma? they will only see it as 'more trauma' won't they? So, a happy medium must present itself, where one is being neither too hard, nor too soft...and before one goes fully 'gung-ho' in bringing out the 'baseball bat', they need to consider the person's past.
I am considering the fact from the past (in this life) which you have shared that you have been 'serviced' by some quite 'sweetly' 'giving' therapists. Hence my conclusion that you are presently a 'spoiled', never satisfed, ever continuing to be self-indulging, 'brat'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
For those with a 'hardened heart', the way to harden it further is to apply the 'tough love' approach...ice will not melt a frozen heart, only warmth and heat will...and yet, if only others would apply the warmth, the heart wouldn't have been made stone cold in the first place...if only people could see that, but they cannot.
If you could only see what I see ... and that is that you just want to be given 'special' 'candy-coated' treatment and reject and 'guilt-trip' anything else! I think, you wouldn't be able to recognize a truly 'loving' parent (or 'older' brother?) if one was plopped right in front of your face!

"Ye have forgotten the exhortation [in your case you never 'received' it (before), and are only 'receiving' it now, because I am a truly 'good' lol guy, through 'me' ] which speaketh unto you as unto children, 'My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye b-a-s-t-a-r-d-s, and not sons."
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