In depth discussion on breath meditation

[In Flux]

Originally Posted by Gem

I recognise boredom - the mind has gone into adversity, impatience and agitation toward the lived experience, and this noticeably brings disquiet to my life.

Indeed. Employing willpower (I call 'volition') is illusory, but it indicates craving reactions which are compelled by the adverse reactions of boredom. I know, this brings disquiet to my life.

Of course, in the absence of personal reactivity there is contentment. The meditation is consciously aware and calm, which is the relaxation, or cessation, of psychological reactivity. The cessation of action and reaction leaves the mind undistracted, while the spontaneous lived experience continues as it is.

I suggest one should notice, be conscious of, the fabrications they produce (which will be produced out of conditioning and habit) but not produce them intentionally.

I think these are all good points, but difficult to put into practice for someone who is not experienced. I personally would not know how to go from "this brings disquiet" directly to abandoning a feeling of boredom. I need to either clench my teeth (metaphorically), or find a way to make my meditation a little less boring without completely escaping into thoughts.

Best regards,
Martin

[Gem]

Originally Posted by In Flux

Well, you are already going into the meditation with an idea, which is: to focus on the breath. If you extend this to "focus on the breath and the energy in the body" then it can help you maintain your interest in the meditation. I believe that for many people, meditation become too dry if they just observe the breath without any intervention. This will vary from person to person. For some, just the observation of the breath is absolutely interesting. Quite likely, these people already have a deeper connection to the present moment. The sensation of "just being" is very satisfying for them. But if you don't sense this so deeply, then it becomes extremely difficult to maintain the concentration on the breath. Then, keeping "the breath and the energy" in mind can give enough of a push to be able to stay in the meditation. I believe this is also why some meditators use the technique of labelling (boredom/pain/thinking/feeling/etc) during the meditation: not because labelling in itself is necessary, but because it gives you enough of a handle to sit through some experiences that would otherwise compel you to get out of the pose.



That's probably true, if you are able to sustain the meditation long enough to see these things arising. I have not gone very deeply into meditation, but I think that using the breath energy has helped me to stay more alert during the meditation, and not fall asleep so easily.



But to shift back to the breath and ignore the loud voice that says "this is so boring, please, let's do something more interesting", that takes will power :-).



I think noticing the breath energy is not necessarily the same as telling yourself a story. It's just a sensation (you could tell a story around it, but you don't have to).

Best regards,
Martin

Hi Martin

It's an interesting post because the process of it it concludes on the sensation of the breath.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by In Flux

Well, you are already going into the meditation with an idea, which is: to focus on the breath. If you extend this to "focus on the breath and the energy in the body" then it can help you maintain your interest in the meditation. I believe that for many people, meditation become too dry if they just observe the breath without any intervention. This will vary from person to person. For some, just the observation of the breath is absolutely interesting. Quite likely, these people already have a deeper connection to the present moment. The sensation of "just being" is very satisfying for them. But if you don't sense this so deeply, then it becomes extremely difficult to maintain the concentration on the breath. Then, keeping "the breath and the energy" in mind can give enough of a push to be able to stay in the meditation. I believe this is also why some meditators use the technique of labelling (boredom/pain/thinking/feeling/etc) during the meditation: not because labelling in itself is necessary, but because it gives you enough of a handle to sit through some experiences that would otherwise compel you to get out of the pose.

What gives you life? People will answer this question according to their own unique inquiry and unique self (aware and unaware). So I can see where your coming from in all this offering. It comes back to how you already are in yourself staying present and able to focus. If you are not someone who can do this naturally in your waking walking life, then yes lots of struggles in this way will arise. That is part of the whole picture and process going into meditation? I never underestimate finding just the right "external" space to support me going into my space. Sometimes for some of us that part of the connection can be a very supportive aspect of building an awareness of our own personal connection. Going back to your story. I don't force myself and I am quite happy to listen to myself deeper to know what I need in any space I am in and be patient with myself in my process of choice no matter what arises. So everything your sharing has a space of itself in meditation, if you believe it can be that way. You can talk about others till the cows come home. But the way is taking the step to start the process with willingness to try. What plays out in the process, is good learning for next time more aware of oneself. I like my inner world of peace and silence, deep as I can go. Some don't even like the layers to get there..let alone the peace.

That's probably true, if you are able to sustain the meditation long enough to see these things arising. I have not gone very deeply into meditation, but I think that using the breath energy has helped me to stay more alert during the meditation, and not fall asleep so easily.

Yes I agree it does support that space of "not falling asleep" so being more alert can assist you to go deeper more consciously. Sleep can take you deeper too if you are conscious of yourself in that state of sleeping meditation..

But to shift back to the breath and ignore the loud voice that says "this is so boring, please, let's do something more interesting", that takes will power :-).

Will power can "push" you into something your not fully ready for, but how sustaining might that be if its all about forcing yourself? I suppose it can open up more of you in this way, if your willing to notice the unfolding and stay present with that choice to manage yourself. I wonder if the voice in your head would quieten down if you practiced changing your mind about how that might be done? (if we create a story before we enter the meditation space, we set ourselves up nicely don't you think?)

I think noticing the breath energy is not necessarily the same as telling yourself a story. It's just a sensation (you could tell a story around it, but you don't have to).

Best regards,
Martin

[Gem]

Never to think it's easy, nor hard, because the fact is, noticing what breathing feels like is all that it is. Yes mind wanders away, but returns, again and again, and it isn't supposed to be other than that.

Of want, people will say to themselves, this is not enough, this is a beginner meditation, some addition must be made to save us from boredom. Nothung can save you from yourself, and if one has a tendency to boredom, this will arise in meditation just as it does in daily life, and one will be aware of the agitated, impatient mind if and when this feeling arises. Not to be overcome and not to be fixed, corrected, and so on, but as the fact which it is, the truth of that insight into ones own mental tendencies, to know that, and only know it, so that it can not arise unconsciously once it is known and recognised in its repetition of habit.

Indeed the breath observation will reveal all that obstructs the view of the breath, all the reactivity and distraction will be noticed in that moment when one realises the truth of what is going on with themselves, without any interference, without any aversion toward it, without any judgment that it ought to be other than it is. It happens to be, and we notice that, and do nothing to make it other than it happens to be.

Now there is nothing, for it only to notice what this breath feels like, as it is, and there are no beginners or experts, for anyone can pay attention to that sensation, and no one ever taught anyone else to do that. That is prior known, already an ability, not an instruction as to how, but a statement the truth of which every person already knows.

The teachers will pretend there is more, another addition to do, and reduce their students to mere obedience, but right now, any person can feel this air, just as it is, with the 'knowingness' that is natural, mysterious, inexplicable, but true none-the-less.

[slowsnake]

Hello,
I noticed that the older you are when you start, the easier it is, to keep focused on your goal that is, in this case "the breath"
I started in the 70's, on and off, work, girls socialising and other things were more important to me than meditation!

But now I find it a lot easier at 64 than at 24, well that's what I think anyway.

KRB

[naturesflow]

The teachers will pretend there is more, another addition to do, and reduce their students to mere obedience, but right now, any person can feel this air, just as it is, with the 'knowingness' that is natural, mysterious, inexplicable, but true none-the-less.

So can you explain why the obedience comes into the practice in these ways?

[Shivani Devi]

...and then, Pranayama seems to be a different matter entirely.

[Mr Interesting]

I use the breathe thing every so often but usually if something is on my mind and is quite stubborn about staying on it, taurus you see, but mostly, maybe because I've been meditating for decades, I just stop thinking and let the consciousness of me wander where it will... noises, body feelings etc. My favourite though is just disappearing, I love that. It's mostly, as it were, the self just simply disappearing... then the 'I' comes back, quite slowly, sometimes and I kinda wonder who I am, then where I am and finally what time it happens to be.

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Mr Interesting

I use the breathe thing every so often but usually if something is on my mind and is quite stubborn about staying on it, taurus you see, but mostly, maybe because I've been meditating for decades, I just stop thinking and let the consciousness of me wander where it will... noises, body feelings etc. My favourite though is just disappearing, I love that. It's mostly, as it were, the self just simply disappearing... then the 'I' comes back, quite slowly, sometimes and I kinda wonder who I am, then where I am and finally what time it happens to be.

That's the benefit of practice, after a while it comes naturally :)

This is a good thread, and a timely one for me because I've been practicing breath meditation just recently. I've tried it before but I found simply observing the breath quite difficult, I found letting go of control and simply allowing myself to breathe to be easier said than done, and usually ended up generating more tension, not less.

What I've found helpful is to focus on releasing resistance immediately prior to the in-breath, because I would feel a contraction at that point which would result in me straining to breathe if I didn't release it; conversely, if I release the contraction the breath comes freely and naturally. Though I don't know if this falls more into the category of breath control rather than observing the breath, but either way I've found it very useful in dissolving energetic blockages.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

So can you explain why the obedience comes into the practice in these ways?

I'm never going suggest anyone be obedient, and I would suggest if anyone has told someone to add to the meditation, then take that away again. Not to obey me and what I suggest, but to stop obeying the one who told you do something. I would go so far as to say that any teacher worth some salt would not instruct people so they obey him, but be helpful to people who want to ask about their obstacles in their meditation, in a way that the student would see the point, not out of believing the teacher, but with their own insight like, 'oh yea, I see what you mean'. The difference here is between trust and faith, and trusting the teacher is different to following in blind obedience because he's supposedly a real spiritual guy. You see the subtle nature of trust, and the necessary difficulty in discovering things for yourself, compared to the crude nature of following instructions, and comfortable ease of just doing whatever you are told.

In that this thread is on breath meditation, we can assume it means be aware of your breathing. I know the implications of it pretty well because I did a lot of this sort of meditation, and I'm happy to talk about that, but I discovered these things myself, and that's the way it has to be for everyone.

The popular narrative on breath meditation is not the same as I found out, and I think much of it is misleading, so my suggestion is people observe their breathing for the sake of finding out what it really feels like. When people come across obstacles, which is reactivity such as impatience, frustration, boredom and all that sort of thing, which are also symptomatic of desiring special spiritual experiences, then talk to me about it, because I've been through it all, and a lot more. I'll explain it in the way I know it, and just maybe that might shine a little light on the thing.