Original Sin?

[Honza]

Originally Posted by sky123

There is no badness in the world, the world is a beautiful place. The actions of the people of the world create the suffering.

Original sin means that even New Babies are sinful and this is not true....

You say it is a matter of perception. I think you may be deceiving yourself a bit. The world can be a terrible place. It has both beauty and ugliness. Badness exists in all manner of forms. But I think you choose not to perceive it.

I don't see why new born babies are any more innocent than old people. Babies are notoriously self centred. They feed off their parents. They are ignorant. Innocence is greater than a needy child.

[Honza]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Eh, no... If this was Disney World then everyone would get a happy end, but let's not talk about that. The fact that the universe is about 13 billion years old isn't a scientific perception but truth based on studies and research. On the other hand, there's zero evidence for a sky-wizard that created everything 6000 years ago in merely six days. That's not to say god isn't real (even though I very much doubt his existence) because for all we know he didn't do anything but just sat down and watched the universe develop on it's own after the big bang. But this too, is highly unlikely.

All I am saying is that our own consciousness of the world is not the last word. We may be delusional, deceived, blinded, oblivious, ignorant etc.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Honza

You say it is a matter of perception. I think you may be deceiving yourself a bit. The world can be a terrible place. It has both beauty and ugliness. Badness exists in all manner of forms. But I think you choose not to perceive it.

I don't see why new born babies are any more innocent than old people. Babies are notoriously self centred. They feed off their parents. They are ignorant. Innocence is greater than a needy child.

No I am not deceiving myself
A New Baby is not born with so called ' original sin ' and are not ' Self Centred ' , what they have is an instinct to survive.
I don't see the world as a terrible place, I see it as perfectly beautiful.....

Surely the New Testament states. In Romans 5 ( 12 through 21)
Through one man (Adam) Sin entered the world and brought Death with it.

Which is stating that before Adams sin, Death was not apart of Life.

So if babies are marked with death then they are under the Law of sin and death.

This is the whole premise of the New Testament that what Adam failed to achieve
the Lord Jesus The Christ succeeded in, living sinless and selfless and brought in Grace and Righteousness a free gift of God.
If one turns away from sin and condemnation they
may partake in these gifts through faith, so one baptizes or dies to sin and condemnation and is
reborn into Life in God or into the BELOVED or born into the Spirit.

*******
((( )))
^^^^^^

[sky]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Surely the New Testament states. In Romans 5 ( 12 through 21)
Through one man (Adam) Sin entered the world and brought Death with it.

Which is stating that before Adams sin, Death was not apart of Life.

So if babies are marked with death then they are under the Law of sin and death.

This is the whole premise of the New Testament that what Adam failed to achieve
the Lord Jesus The Christ succeeded in, living sinless and selfless and brought in Grace and Righteousness a free gift of God.
If one turns away from sin and condemnation they
may partake in these gifts through faith, so one baptizes or dies to sin and condemnation and is
reborn into Life in God or into the BELOVED or born into the Spirit.

*******
((( )))
^^^^^^

Would there be life without death?

Originally Posted by sky123

Would there be life without death?

Yes, Spiritual Life.
Also Life of the Mind.
Life of the Soul. Which I know you have stated you don't believe in.

Physical life. no.

[sky]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Yes, Spiritual Life.
Also Life of the Mind.
Life of the Soul. Which I know you have stated you don't believe in.

Physical life. no.

Apart from physical death, Scripture speaks of a second type of death. This is known as spiritual death.


So we can't have life without death, Spiritually or Physically

[Honza]

Originally Posted by sky123

No I am not deceiving myself
A New Baby is not born with so called ' original sin ' and are not ' Self Centred ' , what they have is an instinct to survive.
I don't see the world as a terrible place, I see it as perfectly beautiful.....

There is a saying that "ignorance is bliss"....it kind of sums up certain peoples approach to life.

[Honza]

Originally Posted by sky123

Apart from physical death, Scripture speaks of a second type of death. This is known as spiritual death.


So we can't have life without death, Spiritually or Physically

Death can be joyful or miserable. On earth most people suffer from a miserable death and all manner of miserable dying.

In a higher state of innocence death can be experienced as liberating.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Honza

There is a saying that "ignorance is bliss"....it kind of sums up certain peoples approach to life.

Maybe to you personally but I don't think ignorance is bliss, lack of knowledge and wisdom is of no value.