Truth being personal

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hi Moonie ..

For truth to exist there requires a relationship between the truth and what you are that can relate to it .

So many layers to this as there are layers to self .

What I would say is that beyond self and all the layers there is only what you are .

What you are that is beyond the relationship between self and anything ..

I posted a quote from Bernadette Roberts the other day speaking along certain lines

How can anything be known, when it Is?
How can the eye see itself?
Or music hear itself?
How can 'I' know 'that', when 'I' AM 'that'?

So bearing that in mind, the truth has to be personal .. because from the perspective that I AM the Truth, you can only know it when there is I AM knowing and not being that .

There is a difference between being and knowing ..


x daz x

Hi God-Like,

Does I Am know itself as itself? If creation or what takes form is I Am becoming or being conscious of itself, then through this does it not know of itself? If not then why and how would it be conscious?

It being/existing (whatever it may be). is a truth. What forms the experience of it? Senses, interactions with it, even, dare say, thoughts which creates a knowing and it being with the consciousness. Atleast what comes to me at the moment.

Can understand it is not necessarily what I think it is and of itself may not even matter to it, as far as it being. For it is just being.

On the personal level without being and knowing it being does it exist unto the self? Ask in regards to what may be realized by one and what this may bring to the self.

Knowing seems personal and seems to grow and change for me. Being just is what is whether I may know or not. Perhaps will come to mind in various forms.
Seems so I may notice it being and in this form a relationship.

It seems like a dance, it takes two or more to create a truth with whatever may arise. Whether me with spirit or others, others sharing, or a group creating ways to express.

In and of itself it just is whether one believes or even know it to be true. In this sense playing with the difference between knowing and being.

Well, just went with the flow of thoughts.

I thank you for your reflections.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hi God-Like,

Does I Am know itself as itself? If creation or what takes form is I Am becoming or being conscious of itself, then through this does it not know of itself? If not then why and how would it be conscious?

It being/existing (whatever it may be). is a truth. What forms the experience of it? Senses, interactions with it, even, dare say, thoughts which creates a knowing and it being with the consciousness. Atleast what comes to me at the moment.

Can understand it is not necessarily what I think it is and of itself may not even matter to it, as far as it being. For it is just being.

On the personal level without being and knowing it being does it exist unto the self? Ask in regards to what may be realized by one and what this may bring to the self.

Knowing seems personal and seems to grow and change for me. Being just is what is whether I may know or not. Perhaps will come to mind in various forms.
Seems so I may notice it being and in this form a relationship.

It seems like a dance, it takes two or more to create a truth with whatever may arise. Whether me with spirit or others, others sharing, or a group creating ways to express.

In and of itself it just is whether one believes or even know it to be true. In this sense playing with the difference between knowing and being.

Well, just went with the flow of thoughts.

I thank you for your reflections.

Hey :)

This is the thing .. Does I Am know itself as itself?

Itself as what exactly?

For as long as there is a dual reflection of I AM then I AM can know itself as I AM .

Where there is a reflection or an awareness of I AM there is truth pertaining to that .

Beyond I AM knowing there is just being what you are with no reflection .

There is no truth, there is no I AM, there is nothing to know .. there isn't the knowing of being .

This is what the quote references .. 'How can 'I' know 'that', when 'I' AM 'that'?

So truth pertains to I AM .

If a peep says there is absolute truth beyond the mindful reflection of self how would they know?

They can't know beyond the sense of themselves, so there has to be something that's self related that can associate with the truth, to say there is an absolute truth ..

I had a visitation last month of Bernadette Roberts and I didn't know who she was until I looked her up and from what little I have read online about her, she seems to have many of the same understandings about self and no self and consciousness .

She said ..

A different type of knowing remains when the relative mind ceases to
exist. It is the type of knowing that is not a knowing at all, for there
is only Being.


x daz x

[Baile]

Originally Posted by God-Like

If a peep says there is absolute truth beyond the mindful reflection of self how would they know?

They can't know beyond the sense of themselves, so there has to be something that's self related that can associate with the truth, to say there is an absolute truth ..

This is more or less the standard spiritual/new age position on truth. Interesting to me that religious people hold the exact opposite view. They believe truth is supreme and absolute, something only God dictates. And they tend to associate personal individual truth with human ego, and debility, and even sin. One only needs to understand human behavior -- specifically, the tendency towards belief extremism -- and to observe this very telling dichotomy between spiritual/new age and religious truth, to recognize that the truth about truth quite obviously lies somewhere in-between.

Anyone who would like to watch a short video on the reality (and beauty) of collective human truth: Chris Cuomo, CNN, YouTube, 4:43 in length, posted July 16, 2018. I spontaneously applauded when it was over. Powerful. And so true.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hello,

Was reflecting upon truth. So going with some thoughts upon this.

Seen threads on it, debates about it, and reflections upon it.

What came to mind is that truth seems to be personal.
It appears in mind in relationship to what is understood, believed, makes sense, and/or resonates.

Sure, there are some truths in relationship to cause and effect. Such as if I touch something on fire, chances are will get burned.

More looking at what appears as personal
What comes to mind is what is found to be true with in.
What touches the spirit, heart, or brings spirit to mind.
Those truths that bring changes to life.
The truth found through experiences that may not always be able to explain or place in words.

Examples; a loved one visiting after he/she has departed from this realm
What may be felt from another without a word being spoken
Now I do understand the examples are some truths I hold and experience has brought such to me.

So, others hold truths as well.

So, wonder why the debates and conflicts, if truths lead to understanding and finding ways to connect? They can be what is shared or help find inner peace.

If not understood or experienced then is it meant for that person?

Now, if a truth is used/misused to gain control over another then is it a truth?

Find at times one has a truth to share and say and sometimes may be intimidated or shouted down (so to speak) to express it. Which reflects more upon the fear of one or group doing the shouting then upon the one speaking his/her truth.

Brings to mind; Speak your truth, even if your voice (or in this case, hands) shake.

What do you all think?

Truth is impersonal in the sense that it is the truth of my experience that 'this is what it is like' in the way I experience it, and others have their unique experience 'as it is' in the way they experience it, and on a universal level, that experience is momentary, as is the nature of all experience.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Gem

Truth is impersonal in the sense that it is the truth of my experience that 'this is what it is like' in the way I experience it, and others have their unique experience 'as it is' in the way they experience it, and on a universal level, that experience is momentary, as is the nature of all experience.

Yes, it is also repeated over and over again reenergized. Experience is often predetermined in many ways. This down time is the opportunity to see other forms of truth. Memory plays a very important and silent role.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by lemex

Yes, it is also repeated over and over again reenergized. Experience is often predetermined in many ways. This down time is the opportunity to see other forms of truth. Memory plays a very important and silent role.

I think the 'personal truth' notion is a result of people so wanting what they think to be true that they attach strongly to what they think, even if it's a negativity. Such strong belief impacts the real-lived experience, which creates ample and growing evidence to support it. However, there is always evidence to contradict it as well, so it never quite adds up. When it starts to decay in the face of contrary evidence, a person might start a repitition of the belief, or perform a ritual of some kind to the same effect, because the attachment becomes more important to them than the truth itself, since the truth is 'mine' - 'my' truth.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey :)

This is the thing .. Does I Am know itself as itself?

Itself as what exactly?

For as long as there is a dual reflection of I AM then I AM can know itself as I AM .

Where there is a reflection or an awareness of I AM there is truth pertaining to that .

Beyond I AM knowing there is just being what you are with no reflection .

There is no truth, there is no I AM, there is nothing to know .. there isn't the knowing of being .

This is what the quote references .. 'How can 'I' know 'that', when 'I' AM 'that'?

So truth pertains to I AM .

If a peep says there is absolute truth beyond the mindful reflection of self how would they know?

They can't know beyond the sense of themselves, so there has to be something that's self related that can associate with the truth, to say there is an absolute truth ..

I had a visitation last month of Bernadette Roberts and I didn't know who she was until I looked her up and from what little I have read online about her, she seems to have many of the same understandings about self and no self and consciousness .

She said ..

A different type of knowing remains when the relative mind ceases to
exist. It is the type of knowing that is not a knowing at all, for there
is only Being.


x daz x

Hi daz,

Presenting my take on this.

As I live being this physical being, I exist.
What this physical being may form into may be influenced by many factors, genetics, past lives ( if one perceives these), social interactions, and self image.
Which seem to play into possible truths held in regards to self.

The image I may hold for myself may vary from that others hold. I have my knowing/truth, as do others. Others may sense or notice things about me that I may not notice or unwilling to acknowledge. All play into being this individual. At present hold a truth of some kind.

Outside of this physical person there is Spirit, which seems to be the continuing energy that flows and gives life. It is also being with in me.

When all said and done, this physical self will no longer be as this person. Others may still hold images of this self and may appear to another in that image held or known, ( in dreams/visitations) but it is just an image. As I can gather at this moment.

The two, knowing and being seem to interplay with each other, as I relate to these. Without me knowing, then would being be noticed? Without me knowing, it seems whatever it may be is still being, but may not be personal.

When identity (what is thought or created in the mind) is dropped, then can grasp there is just being. Without need to know or not.

But, what good is this to realize there may be or is nothing there? To reduce fear? To come to realize truth itself is but a fleeting moment? Does it help in better living life as this guy I'm being? Understand what I'm expressing in these questions. Just self reflecting a bit.

Not to prove you or anyone wrong, it is just for me it all intertwines. It is self, Ethreal, and both.

When I asked; Does I Am know itself? Playing with I Am being something to begin with. There is an I in the term so implies to me something is there. Another way of asking is it conscious of itself?

I know it is just a reference, but what exactly I Am refers to I don't know in the sense of defining it for everyone.

To me, I don't fully know, yet do through feeling presence there. Presence of Spirit/energy flowing, presence of others entering my life, presence of life around me.

Which in its own way makes it personal to me, forms a truth, but impersonal in the sense presence is just what is being with in and around me.

Your visitation seems very interesting. Did a quick search for Bernadetta Roberts. She seems like an interesting being.

I can relate that for something to come to mind there has to be something that reflects or becomes aware of it. May have been there all along, but perhaps the right moment comes along for it to be noticed or to be reflected.

Thank you for your insights

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Gem

Truth is impersonal in the sense that it is the truth of my experience that 'this is what it is like' in the way I experience it, and others have their unique experience 'as it is' in the way they experience it, and on a universal level, that experience is momentary, as is the nature of all experience.

Hi Gem,

Everyone having his/her own experience seems to make it personal while experiencing whatever it may be. Through these a truth may form with in the memory of it and what it may bring to ones life.

Can also relate on a universal level everything passes and changes. As reflected with in life here. Which if not held onto by the individual can appear or be impersonal.

Some things stick with me and form a truth, other things pass on by and have nothing to do with me.

Life seems to contain both the personal and impersonal, while living it, so it seems to me.

Thank you for the response.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hi Gem,

Everyone having his/her own experience seems to make it personal while experiencing whatever it may be. Through these a truth may form with in the memory of it and what it may bring to ones life.

It is made personal by the association of I under the notion that 'all this' is happening to me as 'my' experience. In my long meditation training the experience is viewed as not-me, my, mine, or I. As the 'I' ceases to be the central artifact unto whom this experience happens, there is noone there to react with aversion toward discomforts and craving for pleasures, and because this 'dynamic' comes to halt there is no more volition to perpetuate ego in time by running from displeasure while pursuing pleasure.

Can also relate on a universal level everything passes and changes. As reflected with in life here. Which if not held onto by the individual can appear or be impersonal.

Some things stick with me and form a truth, other things pass on by and have nothing to do with me.

Life seems to contain both the personal and impersonal, while living it, so it seems to me.

Thank you for the response.

I think we just have to believe something, and believe in something, so as to make sense of the world and organise our lives, but in my case I already know all my beliefs are not true, so I give them little importance as being 'right'; hence I can't claim any personal truth. However, faxts such as all experience is temporary, or momentary, are not what I call belief - because it's true for all experience regardless of ones beliefs.

[happy soul]

I think the question is, is truth OBJECTIVE, or SUBJECTIVE?

The existentialist philosopher Soren Kierkegaard said, 'Truth is subjectivity.'

He's saying truth is relative to the individual - it's a matter of one's personal perspective.

Yet things are what they are, not what they seem, not what we think they are, not what we want them to be.

I take the view that truth is OBJECTIVE - it is what it is, regardless of one's belief or preference.

One's idea of truth is subjective, one's personal beliefs are subjective, one's perspective is subjective. But I don't see how truth itself can be a matter of personal opinion - things are what they are.

God is the knower of truth. Only God understands everything perfectly and sees everything exactly as it is. God is omniscient.

People can only partially know truth.