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  #31  
Old 19-04-2019, 03:13 PM
WildHairedWoman WildHairedWoman is offline
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As long as people join religions for what ever reason they are not outdated.
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  #32  
Old 19-04-2019, 03:42 PM
Taking a Break Taking a Break is offline
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Originally Posted by Rawnrr
Science and religion are both looking for the same thing...an understanding of life.
Early religion was the science of the day. Looking for explanations of the world around them. But then as with all human activities, ego came in and then the science (the search) stopped and the dogma settled in. "This is right because we say so and this must not be questioned"
But science did continue and we moved ahead with our understanding and creating the illusion that religion and science are two different paths. This was done so both could live together.
But even alot of science has taken on the ego block as well. "This is what we have believed for so many years, how dare you try to introduce a new theory"..and that will cause the same stagnation.
But the science will still go on, and the fringe sciences will eventually push beyond the the ego boarders of the previous generations.......and this cycle will continue.......that is how we grow as humans


WOW, very good theory, simple and mind-blowing
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  #33  
Old 19-04-2019, 04:22 PM
freebird freebird is offline
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Then you have N Korea with at least 64.3 % of the population classified as Non-Religious and they still create conflicts
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  #34  
Old 19-04-2019, 08:35 PM
Native spirit Native spirit is offline
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What goes around Comes around religion may be flavour of the month for a while spirituality the same.
this has been going on since time immorial .when I was growing up there was a chapel or church in nearly every road.
now the majority of them have been made into Appartments.
people don't go anymore. spirituality was around but was frowned upon by lots of people. now people are Looking for answers so spirituality has taken over.

Namaste
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  #35  
Old 21-04-2019, 08:42 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Originally Posted by Moonglow
Hey Greenslade,

What pops into my mind is; is Spirituality in its essence a thing?
Meaning there is talk and discussions about consciousness, Spirit, other realms/planes of existence, but what manifests/forms or gives forms to these, is it a thing.

For at its base isn't this what spirituality strives to bring to ones attention to?
To look and see beyond ones own ideas, theologies, theories, and such of it all.
To become aware of what is. Which includes some of the bits that seem not so lovey dovey and comfortable.

What is Spirit in relationship to us humans? The key in some ways is in relationship with/to humans. Which plays it part in all this, doesn't it?

The thing is along with the mind set of some of what spiritual or not, comes devaluations of being human. Not accepting in some ways that all this is being experienced and looked at through this human form at present.

When realized that we are not just a bag of bones and flesh, but spirit/energy as well, this for me brings it more together then apart. We are with and of spirit as well in this human form. May in words come across idealistic, because through words up for interpretation. In living life it is felt and just known deep with in

Experiencing someone dying may have brought such wonder and awareness into our consciousness. Feeling that energy leave the body or no longer there. Creating stories to give us comfort and hope.

Powerful stuff when living is hard and one is just trying to survive. To have trust that nature or what may be is protecting and providing for us. Hope can be very strong emotion and sometimes all that keep one from falling apart.

Maybe in some ways in these modern times some have simply lost hope and have become too intellectual as to not dream a little. God or the idea of it, in some respect disappoints ones expectations. But then again one may only be looking at what one expects. When the unexpected happens it gets written off or only getting in the way.

At times, most times, it is the unexpected that make the most changes.
Which brings the thoughts back to Spirituality. It may not always play by what one expects. It changes and flow in directions that expands consciousness, but it is up to each individual to notice or not.

It also involves applying what is brought to ones attention to ones life, which takes effort. More then just reciting prayers and going to church once a week or day.

Mayby some don't want to accept this part. Want a quick fix and a guaranteed ticket to the grand stage. Find life just doesn't work this way. Takes time and effort. To gain wisdom and become aware of what is to be aware of with in and with out. To create change and adapt to the changes as best one is able to.

It is a mix bag of goods. For that is what humans are and living life brings.

Seeing Spirtually or not does not change what life.is being. Just different ways created to deal with it, I suppose.
Hi there Moonglow

Spirituality is a thing because people make it a thing, and this is what they don't understand. They make so many things things. What are the reasons Spirituality is different to humans? Is it because being human is not comfortable and Spirituality is a haven where they can create their own sunshine and roses?

But what if we're looking at this the wrong way, Moonglow? Before you can ask what Spirit is to us there has to be some kind of separation, that we are 'here' and Spirit is 'there', but what if Spirit was just a projection of ourselves so that we could see ourselves? Or more correctly, what we could see ourselves as? In devaluing the human in us we devalue what we have gone through as humans, that our existence and experiences have been meaningless and we should throw them out with the trash. Yet they remain until we find a way to deal with them.

Strictly speaking much of what you're talking about is good old human nature. If you truly live your beliefs, can you experience someone dying? In Spirituality the Soul is eternal and death is simply the passing of one state to another. in that context what of hope? If you hope that the one who has just passed over is going to a better place, how does that reflect your beliefs of the AfterLife? Is the word 'survival' appropriate?

Like it or not we're all Spirit on a Journey in whatever shape or form that takes, and wherever we are here we are. Regardless of what we call Spiritual or not we're going through some pretty human stuff for the sake of our Spiritual evolution. What does that mean?

The 'grand stage' is when you get through Life in one piece, when you can sit on your metaphorical porch and know you've 'been there', and sometimes those are the most Spiritual moments of all. The Universe gives us what we need when we need it, and if that's experiences we don't particularly like we need to put our money where our Spiritual mouth is and suck it down like a true marine, because when it stops we know we've done what we needed to get through it.

Spirituality doesn't change what Life is being, Spirituality IS Life.
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  #36  
Old 21-04-2019, 06:35 PM
Moonglow Moonglow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
Hi there Moonglow

Spirituality is a thing because people make it a thing, and this is what they don't understand. They make so many things things. What are the reasons Spirituality is different to humans? Is it because being human is not comfortable and Spirituality is a haven where they can create their own sunshine and roses?

But what if we're looking at this the wrong way, Moonglow? Before you can ask what Spirit is to us there has to be some kind of separation, that we are 'here' and Spirit is 'there', but what if Spirit was just a projection of ourselves so that we could see ourselves? Or more correctly, what we could see ourselves as? In devaluing the human in us we devalue what we have gone through as humans, that our existence and experiences have been meaningless and we should throw them out with the trash. Yet they remain until we find a way to deal with them.

Strictly speaking much of what you're talking about is good old human nature. If you truly live your beliefs, can you experience someone dying? In Spirituality the Soul is eternal and death is simply the passing of one state to another. in that context what of hope? If you hope that the one who has just passed over is going to a better place, how does that reflect your beliefs of the AfterLife? Is the word 'survival' appropriate?

Like it or not we're all Spirit on a Journey in whatever shape or form that takes, and wherever we are here we are. Regardless of what we call Spiritual or not we're going through some pretty human stuff for the sake of our Spiritual evolution. What does that mean?

The 'grand stage' is when you get through Life in one piece, when you can sit on your metaphorical porch and know you've 'been there', and sometimes those are the most Spiritual moments of all. The Universe gives us what we need when we need it, and if that's experiences we don't particularly like we need to put our money where our Spiritual mouth is and suck it down like a true marine, because when it stops we know we've done what we needed to get through it.

Spirituality doesn't change what Life is being, Spirituality IS Life.

Hi Greenslade,

Spirit to me is no different for humans then it is for any other life form here, as I see it. So, why all the concern, debates, discussions, idealogies, and the like, about it?

Humans have the ability to intellectualise The ability to project ideas about what is, was, and can be. Do other creatures do this?

In a way the idea that there is an after life and perhaps knowing for some plays into survival, IMO Meaning, that we go on after this life. This is not all for nothing/meaningless. A way to send off and honor those that depart from here. In these ways we survive/go on after this life.

Yes can agree one does not experience dying, unless one is dying. One can be a witness to another going through it and through this perhaps understand more about our resilience and frailty. Through seeing the body that is left behind see for oneself that there is more that makes up life. Just how I feel it to be.

Yes, agree I attempt to bring it down to Earth (so to speak). Explore what it is in relationship to being Human. That Spirit is with in and without and Humans are as much part of the unfolding and journey as that which may take other forms.

Perhaps it is our own development and some may say evolution as Humans that is experienced. It seems these are what is explored and seem discussed in many ways.

If of Spirit, then would this not imply Spirit is experiencing this as well, just on wider scale. Meaning, Human being of individual, then expanding into group. Spirit being of group, then contracting to individual. How I can word my thinking at present.

If it is just conscious being, then is not all adding and of this?

Yes, at times gotta "suck it up buttercup",lol. Get through it as best one can. Which is very human indeed and can lead to some very deep insights and revelations.

Agree, Spirit is life and being human is a part of this. There is no line between the two except the ones created in our own minds. In this will create ways of seeing it according to how and what one relates to and (dare say) believes.

Thank you for your insights and thoughts. I enjoy them.
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  #37  
Old 25-04-2019, 01:15 PM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonglow
Hi Greenslade,

Spirit to me is no different for humans then it is for any other life form here, as I see it. So, why all the concern, debates, discussions, idealogies, and the like, about it?

Humans have the ability to intellectualise The ability to project ideas about what is, was, and can be. Do other creatures do this?

In a way the idea that there is an after life and perhaps knowing for some plays into survival, IMO Meaning, that we go on after this life. This is not all for nothing/meaningless. A way to send off and honor those that depart from here. In these ways we survive/go on after this life.

Yes can agree one does not experience dying, unless one is dying. One can be a witness to another going through it and through this perhaps understand more about our resilience and frailty. Through seeing the body that is left behind see for oneself that there is more that makes up life. Just how I feel it to be.

Yes, agree I attempt to bring it down to Earth (so to speak). Explore what it is in relationship to being Human. That Spirit is with in and without and Humans are as much part of the unfolding and journey as that which may take other forms.

Perhaps it is our own development and some may say evolution as Humans that is experienced. It seems these are what is explored and seem discussed in many ways.

If of Spirit, then would this not imply Spirit is experiencing this as well, just on wider scale. Meaning, Human being of individual, then expanding into group. Spirit being of group, then contracting to individual. How I can word my thinking at present.

If it is just conscious being, then is not all adding and of this?

Yes, at times gotta "suck it up buttercup",lol. Get through it as best one can. Which is very human indeed and can lead to some very deep insights and revelations.

Agree, Spirit is life and being human is a part of this. There is no line between the two except the ones created in our own minds. In this will create ways of seeing it according to how and what one relates to and (dare say) believes.

Thank you for your insights and thoughts. I enjoy them.
Hi Moonglow

A few years ago someone asked me on this forum, "Is it not enough to simply exist?" Animals do. And prior to Adam and Eve being hoofed out of the Garden of Eden they did the same - they simply existed. Intellectualising is what brought us here in the first place, so perhaps we have it badly wrong. And they tend to live more completely in The Now.

As you know I've had a couple of near misses that could have led to me being put in a box by now, because becoming biodegradable is illegal. It takes so little to end it all, driving a car one moment then literally moments later a miracle means walking away from it. Or trapped wind puts so much pressure on the heart that it becomes life-threatening. That is a sign of my frailty but there are others who are much more frail than I. Yet after that and a few more traumas here I am still, which is testimony to my resilience. What we don't do sometimes is express ourselves in ways that express and acknowledge of our experiences of Life and how we move through it, we'd much rather flit around the subject and allude to ideologies and theologies rather than our own experiences and emotions. After all, emotions are demons, aren't they?

Everything is interconnected - our emotions, our humanity, our divinity..... What is human and what is Spirit but perhaps the most telling of all is what are the reasons it's either 'this' or 'that'? It is because of the relationships that Source/Spirit can understand itself more fully, because in a dimension of form it can see itself as being this and not being that. I believe this, you believe that and all the while Spirit sits there and thinks "OK, that's interesting" because all consciousness is consciousness just the same. It doesn't need brining down to earth because it's here already.

If we are going to evolve and develop then perhaps realising what is emergent is our own Spirit firstly as humans, the human Spirit that endures somehow and doesn't succumb to the "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune." Being the epitome of ideologies is fine in Spirit because that's all there is, but when 'real Life' has to be endured and that Spirit comes at often great cost, what then? In Spirituality this is what's forgotten about, we've forgotten that we have endured and come through this, and we are still here to tell the take. Perhaps instead of telling each other about ideologies we could acknowledge who and what we are for s change instead of avoiding it.

What is the Spirituality beyond Spirituality? Beyond the ideologies and theologies, what lies there? Many years ago there would have been Spirituality of some description because the inner Spirituality that became religion came from humans, not God. It wasn't until people came together as a group that the human influences steered inner Spirituality towards a religious and ritualistic Spirituality. While some would say that Spirituality comes from religion and religious practices, if it wasn't there in the first place it couldn't have been emergent. If you don't have Spirituality in the first place it can't suddenly appear from nowhere. If that's the case, what does that mean?

Religion is outdated because ritualistic practices don't fit into today's Lifestyles any more but Spiritual development and evolution do take place. What people find in Spirituality - and I don't mean the ideologies and theologies - can be just as easily elsewhere. And without all the layers that Spirituality dresses itself in. What has becomee outdated is the mindset that Spiritual people cling to.
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  #38  
Old 27-04-2019, 05:32 PM
Moonglow Moonglow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
Hi Moonglow

A few years ago someone asked me on this forum, "Is it not enough to simply exist?" Animals do. And prior to Adam and Eve being hoofed out of the Garden of Eden they did the same - they simply existed. Intellectualising is what brought us here in the first place, so perhaps we have it badly wrong. And they tend to live more completely in The Now.

As you know I've had a couple of near misses that could have led to me being put in a box by now, because becoming biodegradable is illegal. It takes so little to end it all, driving a car one moment then literally moments later a miracle means walking away from it. Or trapped wind puts so much pressure on the heart that it becomes life-threatening. That is a sign of my frailty but there are others who are much more frail than I. Yet after that and a few more traumas here I am still, which is testimony to my resilience. What we don't do sometimes is express ourselves in ways that express and acknowledge of our experiences of Life and how we move through it, we'd much rather flit around the subject and allude to ideologies and theologies rather than our own experiences and emotions. After all, emotions are demons, aren't they?

Everything is interconnected - our emotions, our humanity, our divinity..... What is human and what is Spirit but perhaps the most telling of all is what are the reasons it's either 'this' or 'that'? It is because of the relationships that Source/Spirit can understand itself more fully, because in a dimension of form it can see itself as being this and not being that. I believe this, you believe that and all the while Spirit sits there and thinks "OK, that's interesting" because all consciousness is consciousness just the same. It doesn't need brining down to earth because it's here already.

If we are going to evolve and develop then perhaps realising what is emergent is our own Spirit firstly as humans, the human Spirit that endures somehow and doesn't succumb to the "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune." Being the epitome of ideologies is fine in Spirit because that's all there is, but when 'real Life' has to be endured and that Spirit comes at often great cost, what then? In Spirituality this is what's forgotten about, we've forgotten that we have endured and come through this, and we are still here to tell the take. Perhaps instead of telling each other about ideologies we could acknowledge who and what we are for s change instead of avoiding it.

What is the Spirituality beyond Spirituality? Beyond the ideologies and theologies, what lies there? Many years ago there would have been Spirituality of some description because the inner Spirituality that became religion came from humans, not God. It wasn't until people came together as a group that the human influences steered inner Spirituality towards a religious and ritualistic Spirituality. While some would say that Spirituality comes from religion and religious practices, if it wasn't there in the first place it couldn't have been emergent. If you don't have Spirituality in the first place it can't suddenly appear from nowhere. If that's the case, what does that mean?

Religion is outdated because ritualistic practices don't fit into today's Lifestyles any more but Spiritual development and evolution do take place. What people find in Spirituality - and I don't mean the ideologies and theologies - can be just as easily elsewhere. And without all the layers that Spirituality dresses itself in. What has becomee outdated is the mindset that Spiritual people cling to.

Hi Greenslade,

Lol, emotions are not demons. We are emotional beings. If recent studies are accurate it seems we are not the only beings with emotions. As reflected in other creatures. They feel pain, loss, anger, happiness, and the like.

Emotions, for me, are indicators how things are going or how I may be perceiving the "vibe" of another or myself. Without emotions, would think we would be just void of feeling anything.

Emotions can change and fluctuate. Which may be what gets pointed at not only in some spiritual circles, but in some psychological circles as well. To find ways to cope an move on with life.

Religion was formed by humans to express and share similar beliefs, ceremonies, and rituals to bring a connection with the divine and in some ways nature (our own inner nature and what influence us outside).

When preferences were made in regards what should be whorship, who said what the best, how one should live, and God/Gods, then it comes off it gets a little screwy. Has this mind set changed much?

I think Spirtuality was there in some form long before religion. May have not formed notions about it, but honored and respected nature and may have had inklings of something being in connection to us and we of it.

So can agree religion arose from someplace in relationship to human developing a sense of awareness of ourselves and of our surroundings.

Things change. The religions in many ways have changed and splintered off each other. Even the main ones have altered. Sure some still cling to tradition, while others have broken away from the main power structure. But, they still hold onto the basic teachings of the faith and follow the basic rituals and prayers.

Global societies, in general, have changed. Information is more widely shared. With this comes wider ideas forming into new religions/spiritual teachings and practices. They stil, at thier foundations play off of what has been established through prior ideas and theologies. Seems the nature of the beast when formed into an institution or practice.

What is Spirituality at its very core? If being aware of our connection with Spirit and Spirit being the life with in, then it comes off that in this way it holds no boundaries. It is as one lives life and what comes forms it in a way that can be realized and related while living this life, IMO.

What gets outdated is when certain practices and mindset no longer work and/or serve. The people no longer tolerate it. So, uprise to change it.

But, fanatics still persist, divisions still remain, people get mocked and persecuted for believing what they will. The whole live and let live does not hold true for all. Just human nature? Preservation of the institutions? Pride and fear of admitting we actually don't know?

I can't say for sure, because I don't know for sure for the whole lot.

Perhaps it is not Spirituality that dresses itself up. For if it be life unfolding before us and Spirit doing what it will, then doesn't this indicate that perhaps in some ways we only fool ourselves? Which seem to go on and on.
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  #39  
Old 28-04-2019, 12:38 AM
Spirit bird Spirit bird is offline
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I believe everyone has to have some sort of faith in something. For me...there is a SOURCE, wether someone calls that source God, or Allah, or Messiah, or whatever term they choose, it is all the same and leads back to one definitive. But I do also believe that some religions are designed to have you give up your power and through worship cords keep you inline with fears. There should be no fear with believing in a higher power (source) or believing in yourself and what you find from within. To instill these fears by many is in my opinion wrong and by doing so it holds one back from advancing in spiritual growth. This is indoctrined and used by others sometimes as an advantage to keep you grounded and inline with what they want you to believe in. We need to break free from this. And in doing so and recognizing it will set you free on a path to spiritually grow further. I believe firmly there is a source or a God (known by many a name) but also people who take advantage in religion to utilize this source to instill fear into people and that is wrong and what stunts our growth. It does create cords that hold us back from learning and knowing our true divine nature.
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