Fruitarianism ♥

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Sapphirez

I am glad that you started eating more fresh food including fruit. and that you have found positive value in some of the things I've said. I think you are a very intelligent person and have a grasp on some worthwhile facts, but I think you are blindly loyal to a mainstream paradigm that isn't true to reality. and I am really aggravated that you keep insulting Dr Morse who you know next to little about. I am disappointed that the fact he has no mainstream degrees convinces you that you can discount him and write off anything he says, when you haven't researched or put much thought into what he says.

I take a science based approach in the sports nutrition context, and weight loss and physical performance is enhanced by my approach, because it ensures appropriate and complete nutrition.



Morse lies about being a doctor, so he's not trustworthy and he sells bogus supplements. These are pretty sure signs of a scam.


There are other people who are doctors or dietitians and have proper integrity who have remarkable success in reversing various illnesses with dietary interventions. There are also people who are doctors and dietitians who don't have much integrity, and I can tell when I listen to them that are misleading people. First I check their credentials; then I check their websites and find out that they sell bogus supplements. This is how I sort the chaff from the hay.


By filtering other nonsense, I am left with reasonable information, and not the hearsay of fake doctors, supplement salesmen and testimonials.

He has an understanding of the human body and healing processes (as well as food and even spiritual matters beyond anything related to all this) that I don't think any of your recommended doctors or those you deem as qualified professionals have.

The Doctors I mentioned have incredible track records in treating maladies with dietary interventions. Their outcomes are properly documented and their research is published peer reviewed journals. That is the high standard I go by.

He has spent decades learning nonetheless, and I think it's plain to see that his experience outside of the mainstream and lack of acceptance according to their 'standards' is exactly what makes him so profound, practical, and effective.


His videos are mostly casual Q & A responding to people who write in and he also just talks about what's on his mind, so the flow of them may not be what one expects when playing a youtube video, but I think that anybody who gives him a chance with an open heart, mind, eyes and ears will quickly see the things he's sharing are generally wise and based in knowledge and fact. You can look up anything he says about the human body or food or whatever, and you should be able to find the truth which might've been hidden otherwise. Although some of the things he says might not be searchable by google and you'll need to just use common sense and compare other facts on your own to see the conclusion he's come to. I mean there is not really anyone else I've seen that knows and does what he does, and there are other doctors (who have degrees you'd respect I guess) that I adore and have learned from. but Dr Morse has a team, clinic, and has personally worked with patients for a lot of years and there is no denying the healing and teaching he's done.

If you fail to see the truth of this man and the amazing healing stories some of his patients have shared which I guess I didn't post in this thread but will, then it is only your own closed-offedness and loyalty to something which may not be serving you and those you serve which is in the way and preventing you from benefiting from this person who has a plethora to offer.
https://www.grapegate.com/testimonials/

Testimonials are anecdotal, and that is the lowest tier of evidence. I know so many quacks in my industry, the fitness industry, who have thousands of testimonials they use to sell their nonsense. People who use testimonials as evidence can't be trusted. People who are serious don't do it.

There are other people online who talk of being helped by him also, or made youtube videos. You can choose to ignore others speaking or what Dr Morse says if you want to, but it doesn't change the fact that he offers the missing puzzle pieces you would be lucky to find and incorporate.. I understand that your clients would not easily accept the truth either though so you have more invested in staying the way you are and not expanding your mind and horizons unfortunately.. Anyways just please stop talking smack about an incredible person you are actually unfamiliar with and are unwilling to familiarize yourself with.
I might reply later about the nutrition and other things you said but I'm hesitant because while you divulge you've been inspired to eat more colorful fresh foods, you're still just doing that because it already follows the belief system you were holding and you've not proved you're willing or wanting to learn anything new or have a paradigm shift.. Openness and willingness to investigate new things is integral to productive discussions and spiritual interactions

Morses protocol will show benefits in the short term because people stop eating junk food and coffee and stuff, enter a caloric deficit, and then report feeling better. People testify to this on all sorts of fad diets from celery juice to keto. There are testimonials by the hundreds on the miracle cure of the carnivore diet. There are actual doctors who swear buy it.


I am across all the information from veganism to carnivore and everything in between. From the sports science literature to you tube video vlogs. I have run kitchens in ashrams that have spiritual views on food, and I have nutritional education as part of my personal trainer qualifications, so you can try to undermine what I say as narrow minded etc, but that won't withstand the truth.


Indeed, I'm not the one saying 'people are supposed to eat...' nor pushing a particular agenda, I'm open to all sorts of ways of eating, but it comes down to a fundamental principle: is the way of eating meeting the individual's nutritional needs? If so, then it can probably be tweaked to optimise digestion, preference, convenience etc; but if not, nutrients have to be addressed and there no point going into minutiae.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by inavalan

I just read an informative article today:

Which countries eat the most meat?

Interesting. I raised these points in a vegan thread in which people claimed the world is turning vegan. I then pointed out pretty much all the points covered in the article. It's not because I have anything against veganism or that I advocate eating lots of meat. It is because I say things which are evidence based, objective and true (yet open to critique), albeit to the chagrin of some.


The problem with casual social discourse is, nothing is open to critique. ("You can't handle the truth"). But I encourage people to very highly critical of me and/or any doctor or dietitian I name, because a lot of what people say is confirmation bias, some has not yet been verified, and some is plain wrong.

[Sapphirez]

Obviously you didn't openly listen to Dr Morse or learn from the testimonials because you said people will feel better right away but the fact is that most people have breakthroughs and overcome serious illnesses much later down the road because detoxification and regeneration takes time. Gem you're pretty one-sided and it is exhausting and irritating to me, but you are the one who will be hurt most in the long run. I'm sorry but I see that my thread is not the only one you've monopolized with your parroted mainstream information that is misguided and you just aren't willing to learn or actually listen/read to what I say no matter what it is. I am afraid that trying to talk to or discuss with you is pointless because you really are one-sided despite what you say. I keep telling you things and you keep ignoring the reality of them and the reality of the truth of what we're supposed to be discussing here. You've insulted Dr Morse who you still are unfamiliar with for the last time in my thread. please stop replying if you're just gonna keep doing that and refusing to open yourself to the truths I made this thread to share and discuss.


Dr Morse sells mostly herbs and I have already talked about why he sells them and the logic behind him doing that and I'd do it too if I had the experience and found worthwhile resources that laypeople might not easily find. Herbs and supplements are not the same thing but then it seems you don't understand herbs just like you wouldn't understand a doctor or healer using and recommending them. The fact I already went over the sensibility of him offering herbs pages ago and you bring it up again as if I didn't shows how little you are really listening or learning or willing to meet me in the middle. If someone can find excellent quality herbs and process them properly why wouldn't they want to offer them instead of risking people paying more for low quality sources? I am passionate about essential oils yet I know there are a lot of impostor suppliers and shoddy bottles out there masquerading as pure oils when they're not. If I am going to recommend them to people I'm not just going to let them choose any random one that might actually be harmful to them. If I get to the level I hope to someday, I will sell concoctions with trustworthy sourced oils, and herbs too, myself. and you could talk smack about me all you want but all it'd be would be you talking smack senselessly, like you have in here about Dr Morse and facts you refuse to understand.

I think it is sick that you put forth extra effort to italicize about others being doctors trying to again insult Dr Morse when I asked you not to insult and criticize him again in my previous post. According to the dictionary and my personal definition a doctor heals and helps people understand their bodies and Dr Morse fits that description better than most others who call themselves doctors, most others actually being murderers. and they learn how to murder people with lots and lots of schooling and degrees. who the hell wants that?? maybe you but not me,..

Dr Morse DID spend years learning through various schools and spent a lot more time learning on his own and through his experience healing patients. The simple truth is that you are brainwashed by mainstream misinformation you can't see through and if you aren't willing to open yourself to higher more profound realities and have fair discussions with sincere intent to learn and understand something you can't learn in the mainstream, then you don't really have a reason to be in this thread..

[pseudonymus]

Originally Posted by Sapphirez

I believe now through my years of research that humans are designed to be frugivores/fruitarians and eat primarily fresh fruits and some young leafy greens.

This is a Post Hoc opinion/view. Meaning that as a modern-day homo sapiens, you make this opinion or view that humans were designed to be fructarians... to primarily eat fruits and greens, like some monkeys do.

According to science, our proto-human ancestors would not have been able to evolve into the species Homo Sapiens, if it weren't for the fact that Cooking Meat was adopted:

Eating meat and cooking food made us human, the studies suggest, enabling the brains of our prehuman ancestors to grow dramatically over a period of a few million years. -- Link

Also, as far as social science goes: in very prehistoric times, it was the regular act of proto-humans sitting around a camp fire, cooking and sharing meat, that sociologically gave rise to tribes, which tribes helped our species struggle and survive the brutal conditions of Nature [preditors and so on]. And it was from that sociological nucleus [sharing meat around a camp fire] that actually helped our proto-human ancestors develop language [re-telling stories about the hunt around the camp fire] and primitive human civilization.

And so, it's very unfortunate that Meat has such a bad rap: if it weren't for meat, and the discovery of fire, and the innovation of cooking meat together, (1) as a species we homo sapiens would not exist, (2) we wouldn't have language, or the intelligence needed, to even talk about how meat sucks, (3) there would be no human civilization.

Further research on how meat drove human evolution: Link.

[Sapphirez]

pseudonymus not only is this the vegetarian and vegan section of the forum but this is also specifically a thread about fruitarianism, as you are well aware. I've seen at least one moderator advise those not interested in discussing vegetarianism/veganism to refrain from instigating in this part of the forum which is dedicated for those that understand or want to understand the negativity of eating rotten murdered animal carcasses, which is what "meat" is.


Counter to the theories you've provided I've also seen it said that fruit is what developed mankind's brains and nervous systems, and I guarantee if more people followed that logical diet there would not be the horrors going on in the world as they are today. I wouldn't be bragging about the status of mankind consuming meat.. when in fact they've done experiments such as feeding prisoners vegan diets and it completely changes them into respectable no longer violent more genuine respectable people.


There are many many things wrong with eating dead animals, and even eating dead (cooked or overly processed) foods in general, which my thread is not about whether or not one should eat murdered other species because that has become common sense at this point. You or your cited link go on about civilization and society yet you fail to reveal or admit how messed up society is today and has been for the majority or totality of history. This doesn't need to be the reality. but people being misguided, brainwashed, and gluttonous is what's mainly in the way. When given all the evidence and simple truth of the matter one can't even see how stupid and toxic murdering animals and eating them is, well I'd say evolution has taken a back sear and could use a steer in another direction.


The fact of the matter is that human beings have the physical and physiological makings for eating mostly fruit, not ravaging dead animals such as true carnivores do. You can liken yourself to a scavenger if you want because that is what you are if you don't kill the prey with your own paws and teeth such as wild cats do, and if you don't even have desire to eat the dead animal when it is freshly killed that's another obvious sign you're not supposed to be.. unless you do, maybe that's your thing I don't know.. but I'm guessing you like your dead meat killed further with letting it rot for days, "aging" and you like it beat up by flames or heat to cook it and so on until it hardly resembles the creature or "food" it initially was.. to say this is natural or makes sense is ridiculous. and on top of that of course upon consuming such a dead and overkilled creature, it turns acid in your body and destroys your cells and rots you just like it was rotted.. Have you really not put any thought into this? It goes much deeper than that obviously but come on now it just becomes silly the more realistic you can be about the truth of eating murdered animal carcasses.


Humans can eat almost anything and the body will try to make use of it for energy and everything, but what it cannot use it must try to detoxify or excrete out, and unfortunately the more toxic and unfit things a human consumes, the harder this becomes for the body and lymphatic system. There is a whole lot more damage that goes on when consuming dead and cooked animals. And that doesn't even factor in the spiritual factor, or subconscious mental trauma involved with eating an animal that should still be alive and free to live its divine life. it's torture to both the human that eats it and the animal that deserves to thrive too. it just does't make any sense on any level at all. not any evolved or respectable level anyway

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Sapphirez

Obviously you didn't openly listen to Dr Morse or learn from the testimonials because you said people will feel better right away but the fact is that most people have breakthroughs and overcome serious illnesses much later down the road because detoxification and regeneration takes time. Gem you're pretty one-sided and it is exhausting and irritating to me, but you are the one who will be hurt most in the long run. I'm sorry but I see that my thread is not the only one you've monopolized with your parroted mainstream information that is misguided and you just aren't willing to learn or actually listen/read to what I say no matter what it is. I am afraid that trying to talk to or discuss with you is pointless because you really are one-sided despite what you say. I keep telling you things and you keep ignoring the reality of them and the reality of the truth of what we're supposed to be discussing here. You've insulted Dr Morse who you still are unfamiliar with for the last time in my thread. please stop replying if you're just gonna keep doing that and refusing to open yourself to the truths I made this thread to share and discuss.

Dr Morse sells mostly herbs and I have already talked about why he sells them and the logic behind him doing that and I'd do it too if I had the experience and found worthwhile resources that laypeople might not easily find. Herbs and supplements are not the same thing but then it seems you don't understand herbs just like you wouldn't understand a doctor or healer using and recommending them. The fact I already went over the sensibility of him offering herbs pages ago and you bring it up again as if I didn't shows how little you are really listening or learning or willing to meet me in the middle. If someone can find excellent quality herbs and process them properly why wouldn't they want to offer them instead of risking people paying more for low quality sources? I am passionate about essential oils yet I know there are a lot of impostor suppliers and shoddy bottles out there masquerading as pure oils when they're not. If I am going to recommend them to people I'm not just going to let them choose any random one that might actually be harmful to them. If I get to the level I hope to someday, I will sell concoctions with trustworthy sourced oils, and herbs too, myself. and you could talk smack about me all you want but all it'd be would be you talking smack senselessly, like you have in here about Dr Morse and facts you refuse to understand.


I think it is sick that you put forth extra effort to italicize about others being doctors trying to again insult Dr Morse when I asked you not to insult and criticize him again in my previous post. According to the dictionary and my personal definition a doctor heals and helps people understand their bodies and Dr Morse fits that description better than most others who call themselves doctors, most others actually being murderers. and they learn how to murder people with lots and lots of schooling and degrees. who the hell wants that?? maybe you but not me,..

I put Morse through the same basic test as everyone else who claims to be a doctor, and he doesn't make the grade.

Dr Morse DID spend years learning through various schools and spent a lot more time learning on his own and through his experience healing patients. The simple truth is that you are brainwashed by mainstream misinformation you can't see through and if you aren't willing to open yourself to higher more profound realities and have fair discussions with sincere intent to learn and understand something you can't learn in the mainstream, then you don't really have a reason to be in this thread..

Morse lies, so I'm not interested in his nonsense.



Do you have any other people you get information from?

[Sapphirez]

He does not lie and you have no foundation to keep claiming such, you're really starting to get me mad.

I've read many books and material online and listened to lots of different people. I hold a handful in high regards but none relay the magnitude of useful information as much as Morse does. A couple others that I love are a Dr Lodi and Dr Christianne Northrup. Another person online who I've learned a great deal from is a man who has a channel Peace, Love, Positive Vibrations though he's not made new videos for a while.
One of my favorite books is Conscious Eating, though it has some flaws it presents a lot of excellent information and insight. I've never had Dr Morse's book but I'd love to get my hands on it and I'd suggest you give it a read if you're not going to hear his message through the convenient youtube videos before you make any more comments about the man. The simple fact is you didn't pay any reasonable attention to what he says so you have no right to critique or criticize him and the information he shares which is basically infallible when you put genuine consideration and your own research into it.

I have been trying to learn about human healing for more than half of my life, and because of anxiety I had little offline social life for most of it, when I wasn't in a phase of partying anyway.. I have lots of books, though of course like you I have plenty about other interests along with those of healing and diet.. but anyways most books available are missing part of the puzzle. and if you rely on the mainstream for information and refuse to think outside that poorly designed booby-trapped box you will never understand the human body or the deepest healing. I seek to learn the deepest truths and I've believed a lot of what you still do, but I learned better and you should too

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Sapphirez

He does not lie and you have no foundation to keep claiming such, you're really starting to get me mad.

He calls himself a doctor and that isn't true. He claims to heal all sorts of things form AIDS to cancer, and it isn't true. He has a range of supplements which cost a lot, like $1500 detox kits, which is very dubious indeed.



Compare this to someone like Dr Valter Longo, who does research on longevity (which is basically the same as disease prevention and reversal, but also about genetic aging processes) though the effects of fasting and re-feeding. He makes sustainable life-long recommendations he calls the 'longevity diet. He demonstrates success rates with clinical trials which are subject to peer review. I encourage you and others to look him up, and be extremely critical of him and his methods.

I've read many books and material online and listened to lots of different people. I hold a handful in high regards but none relay the magnitude of useful information as much as Morse does. A couple others that I love are a Dr Lodi

I checked out Dr. Lodi. He seems to be what he claims to be and does NOT falsely use the title Doctor and is states his credentials and experience (which are very impressive) clearly. He doesn't claim to heal anything and everything, and he seems to solely focus on cancer (integrating conventional treatments with dietary interventions). There's no supplement sales on either of his sites. I see nothing underhand about him, so I'm inspired to trust, and I'll go ahead and watch his stuff on you-tube to see what he has to say.

and Dr Christianne Northrup.

Dr Christianne Northrup is actually a doctor, but she plays the celebrity card very heavily so I'm thinking shes in the 'Dr Oz category'. Her book titles seem kinda spiritual, so I'm suspect, but not having read them I couldn't reasonably comment. She sells really expensive supplements on her website (Pueraria Mirifica pills for 80 bucks!), so she is compromising integrity to make a buck (which fits the 'Dr Oz' MO).


I'll see what she has to say but based on what I already know, I anticipate much of it will be nonsense.



Dr. Lodi kook great, though, and I anticipate really good information from him, so thanks for mentioning him. I'll certainly listen to him.

Another person online who I've learned a great deal from is a man who has a channel Peace, Love, Positive Vibrations

I appreciate all those sentiments, but it's not my scene. Nothing like false claims about himself as far as I can see, so nothing wrong in any way and he's great for people who are into all that; it's just not my thang, personally.

One of my favorite books is Conscious Eating,

He sees himself as a diet guru. Supplement sales based on arbitrary claims... pushes testimonials on his site... no good.

though it has some flaws it presents a lot of excellent information and insight. I've never had Dr Morse's book but I'd love to get my hands on it and I'd suggest you give it a read if you're not going to hear his message through the convenient youtube videos before you make any more comments about the man. The simple fact is you didn't pay any reasonable attention to what he says so you have no right to critique or criticize him and the information he shares which is basically infallible when you put genuine consideration and your own research into it.

I have been trying to learn about human healing for more than half of my life, and because of anxiety I had little offline social life for most of it, when I wasn't in a phase of partying anyway.. I have lots of books, though of course like you I have plenty about other interests along with those of healing and diet.. but anyways most books available are missing part of the puzzle. and if you rely on the mainstream for information and refuse to think outside that poorly designed booby-trapped box you will never understand the human body or the deepest healing. I seek to learn the deepest truths and I've believed a lot of what you still do, but I learned better and you should too

I understand healing in quite a fundamental way across a human beings physical, psychological, spiritual and social dimensions. It's multidimensional, multifactorial and highly individualised in practice. Anyone claiming they can heal this or that is either misguided or dishonest. Serious people do their best, and to be most effective, a multidimensional and holistic approach is needed. I think it is probable that Lodi understands this principle, but the others you mention have various aspects to what they practice that are not of the highest integrity, which gives me reason to pause.

[Gem]

I watched a Dr Lodi talk on you-tube, and frankly, in view of me anticipating riveting information, it was far less that I expected.



Many things he said were not true, such as stage 4 cancer having a 4% 5 year survival rate, which is ridiculous because different kinds of cancer have vastly different prognoses. I won't babble on about the inaccuracies, but there were a few, and instead of using real life observable effects as illustrations, he tended to use pithy analogies - which are extremely compelling, but entirely vacuous.


Toward the end of the talk he started preaching about God and resorted to 'appeal to nature' fallacies, at which point I began to get a bit rolly-eyed. He made some very remarkable claims about the success of his protocol, but provided no empirical data such as verified tests. The only evidence he presented was individual case studies, which, like testimonials, are the lowest possible form of evidence - and although serious people do mention case studies, they do NOT use them as evidence.


Lastly, I thought he does seem to incorporate a multidimensional approach, so even if he's kinda flaky, he might get great results, but search as I may, I found no proper information in that regard. He does have a video about his survival rates, in which he skirts the issue, and based on those who stay in touch (of course the ones that die generally don't) he says that 20% of stage 4 cancer patients are still alive after 5 years - what kind of cancer? What degree of remission or advancement? No idea.


The cost of a stay at Lodi's healing centre is 5000-8000 per week... according to their site.



In conclusion, based on the one talk I sat through, which was about an hour long, Lodi makes claims he seemingly cannot back up with hard evidence, so he probably exaggerates. Nor does he keep track of his past clientelle, so he can't possibly know his survival rates, and even his estimation is accurate (I can't see how it could be), without information about which type of cancer, it's completely meaningless.





I know Lodi advocates a mostly raw plant based diet (he says 80% should be raw, unless in treatment in which case 100% raw), and I have nothing against that; it's a reasonable enough guideline, but I don't know what he has to say about nutrition. After I find out what he says about nutrition, I'll offer my critique on that.

[Gem]

Well, I watched a few of Lodi's videos on nutrition, and I wish I could say something positive because when I checkeed his credentials, past experience and he doesn't sell shonky supplements, I thought he would be of high calibre, but he's not, and I can't waste time with loopy nonsense.


His video "One sure way to lose weight" failed to mention that calorie deficit is the fundamental requisite of weight loss. Not only that, he did not talk about weight-loss at all!!!


In his video on protein, He doesn't mention nuts, legumes, quinoa grain etc at all. He omitted all the best plant protein sources!!!

So I looked into it pretty thoroughly, and found Lodi talks like a duck. I have nothing against plant based diets, his 80% raw suggestion seems reasonable enough, and if people change from the standard American diet to his protocol they will almost certainly benefit. Of course eating plenty of fruit and veg and eliminating 'junk food' is going to do good. He seems like an honest and kind fellow, so I like and respect him on a personal level, but much of what he says isn't true, and he's not providing proper information.