Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > North American Indigenous Spirituality

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 10-03-2016, 11:41 PM
SoulsInMotion SoulsInMotion is offline
Knower
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 207
  SoulsInMotion's Avatar
I read the links. For the benefit of others I will post them here.

http://crossingthebaltic.com/2012/09...enced-history/

http://www.laits.utexas.edu/sami/die...vangelical.htm

What's so interesting to me is how one culture can have something done to them, and turn right around and do it to another. For example, Finns in Russia were persecuted in just the same way as the Sami were by the Finns. They were forbidden to speak their own language or have their own schools, or their own religion. This was actually done by an atheist leader (Stalin), so it seems evident that it is not about Christianity itself being created as a system of oppression like many insist it was, but some kind of virus within the hearts of men, regardless of their chosen system, which makes them desire to conquer and annihilate anything which challenges their goals.

Of course, I very much doubt that the particular Finns who were persecuted wanted anything but to live in peace. Finland itself is a divided country, and has been since pretty much the beginning. It is made up of many different types of people, like all Westernized nations. So I don't agree with everything my homeland does, but there are traits many of us share that I find honorable and those of us who are still connected to the land and spirits.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-03-2016, 06:05 AM
Shaunc Shaunc is offline
Guide
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 568
 
What you describe here unfortunately is just a part of nature. Not really too dissimilar to a dog that has been abused becoming vicious. This same thing has happened in many countries. I'm 6 generations australian descending from irish catholic convicts. They were sent to this country by the British and also had their language and a lot of their cultures taken from them. In this country they committed atrocities against the Aborigines.
I don't know how to stop this behavior occurring in people. Personally I believe that it's part of nature but I'm not 100% sure of it
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-03-2016, 01:52 AM
makwaiskwew makwaiskwew is offline
Newbie ;)
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 16
 
Thank You SoulsInMotion...I appreciate that a lot.

Shaunc
Remember the countless millions of indigenous worldwide who for 500 years have suffered and died through the wars, forced resettlement, disease and conquest justified by two papal orders or bulls, called Romanus Pontifex (1455) issued by Pope Nicholas V and Inter Caetera (1493) pronounced by Pope Alexander VI.

These papal bulls are the “blueprints” for the Age of Discovery since they granted explorers the absolute right to:

“…invade, search out, capture, vanquish, and subdue all Saracens and pagans whatsoever, and other enemies of Christ wheresoever placed” and to “reduce their persons to perpetual slavery”.

Incredibly, neither of the two papal bulls has been officially revoked to this day.

Currently "The Long March to Rome" has a petition to revoke these bulls although many others including Catholic nuns, religious groups and the Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers have petitioned as as well over time.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 13-01-2018, 04:42 AM
sentient sentient is offline
Knower
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 137
 
Hi SoulsInMotion (if you are still on the forum board).

I’ll add my bit to your story, because it looks like we have got the same or similar background.

I am a Karel-Veps-Saami-Finn-Siberian mix, with a bit of Komi and White Sea Pomor thrown in (+ a tiny bit of Swedish/Norwegian and Irish).
And you don’t have to come from the specific Proto-Saami area, as we from the “Russian” side – (as do all Finns) have Saami admix.
Quote:
Finland eventually gained its independence, but this is not true of some other Finn nations within Russian territory.
Which is why our grandparents & parents became war refugees.
Quote:
As I eventually read about all these connections between Finns and native American tribes later, I knew that somehow it was true, and that there is some connection there in my blood. I know "who I am".
Same here and for many of “us” - and when in a trance I’d go deep within myself and reflect the cellular-memory-bank, the connection between Finns and Native American tribes does come up, which was totally puzzling to me (as I have no past lives there) and wondered how on earth it was possible.

*

What I would suggest to you, is to take a DNA-test. FTDNA Family Finder Autosomal test.

So here’s what unfolded for me – and I imagine - will unfold for all of us from the “Finnic Russian side”:
The first peoples to leave Africa came across Neanderthals – which is why all Native groups - Mammoth Step hunter gatherers have a high % of the Neanderthal mix. (Mine is 97% higher than all the people tested).

Most of my genes are still hunter-gatherer genes (Baltic, North Eurasian plus South American, Mayan especially).

From Euro (maternal side) I/we have 20% of the original hunter gatherer genes that came from La Brana:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...an-traits.html

And via Doggerland – they/we moved up north via the Baltic coast to North (= Saami/Veps mix).

Our paternal lines came from the East and through them I suppose - we are most likely related to the Malta boy:
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-25020958

Of Malta boy I have 20% and my Amerind affinity (= false positive) is 12-13%
http://dienekes.blogspot.com.au/2012...dian-like.html
This imo. is the Amerind connection people – “us” have intuitively perceived.

And of course it doesn’t work just one way, but the purest N/A:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-.../#.Wll3BnmYNWE
When tested, shows ‘false positive’ for our DNA:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BqRB2XGxR..._myOrigins.PNG
Quote:
"Finland and Northern Siberia:
This component of your ancestry is associated with the polar regions of Eurasia, stretching from Finland to eastern Siberia in Russia. Similar to other northern regions, this region of Eurasia was settled late and primarily by hunter-gatherers who could survive on the edges of the receding icesheets, and did not take on agriculture until very recently. Although this area may appear distant on a map, members of this population eventually expanded as far east as Alaska, Canada, and North America, and their genetic legacy is still seen in Inuit populations as far east as Canada and Greenland, but also Sami populations as far west as Finland and Sweden. Your ancestors were true circumpolar settlers."
Quote:
When customers of DNA Consultants with various degrees of Native American admixture have their European population matches analyzed, a frequent top result is Finland or Finno-Ugric or Uralic. This “false match” could be explained by shared ancestry between the present-day Finns and ancestors of Native Americans.
Whether people like/hate this or not there it is.

*

Also ‘Siberian’ is a part and a parcel of our genetic heritage.
Quote:
Migration from the East was associated with the spread of the Imiyakhtakhskaya culture from Yakutia (East Siberia) through northwestern Siberia to the Kola Peninsula during the Early Metal Age (3,000–4,000 yBP, )
This left us (Saami the most) with Koryak, Chuchi and Itelmen mix. (Mine is over 3%).
Plus we all have additionally ancient Nganasan (mine - about 6%).

But my most recent (around 1770) Siberian ancestor was most likely an Asian Göktürk + Yakut/Tungus (Tungus as in Evenk) mix (This is my past life memory and a large enough DNA sequence = cM to validate).
Which is why my totem is a wolf (and not one of those weekend New Age Shamanic course ‘find your totem’ mind trips people take).
I do have a recent Selkup ancestror also, but of that I have no ‘cellular’ nor past-life memories and a recent Saami admix (which was hidden because the persecutions) but I did intuitively remember this.
You might have these also.

Our Malta-boy genes mainly connect us to South Amerinds, but our Koryak, Chuchi and Itelmen and Selkup (with traces of Ket & Buryat) DNA have a connection to Nth. Amerinds.

So – I suggest you look into your ‘false positive’ Amerind DNA i.e. connection and your Siberian ancestral heritage & you may find that the pieces of the jigsaw as to who you are and why you are the way you are (and have always known it!) come together as validated factual data.

Hence there is no point on looking for any ‘Natives’ outside ourselves, and our Shamanic heritage - that some Native Americans choose to call 'fraudulent and plastic' -
I don't think so.

"We all have a song within us - it tells us who we are":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpNLq4jXUdM

*

Last edited by sentient : 13-01-2018 at 06:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 13-01-2018, 12:24 PM
SoulsInMotion SoulsInMotion is offline
Knower
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 207
  SoulsInMotion's Avatar
Thank you for sharing, sentient. I am curious about my DNA but knowing how they sell peoples data, am not that terribly keen on doing so. Guess I'll have to deal with not knowing. What I do know is that our family presents more of the truly Finnish features than many modern "Finns" do, that is the epicanthic fold, high cheekbones and so on. I should spend more time tracing our family tree info at least, which I do have a fair bit of data on going back a couple of centuries.

I have what might be a past life memory that has stuck with me subconsciously forever, and that is being with family in an ancient savusauna bathing under the light of lanterns. Also occasionally dreams from WWII era.

Cheers for the reply.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 14-01-2018, 02:05 AM
sentient sentient is offline
Knower
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 137
 
https://crossingthebaltic.com/2012/0...enced-history/

In response to this - just that you know SoulsInMotion that everyone in Finland has Saami admixture.

I am not Saami by identity (we had only sometimes been called 'Lapps' by others), but for example by Central European (even Swedish or Norwegian) standards, my genetics would read as if I was about 40% Saami. But this is just because all the original hunting and fishing populations from Lake Ladoga to Onega to the White Sea and Kola Peninsula (places where my ancestors came from) came from the old pre-Saami mix (plus additionally my recently discovered Saami side our grandparents hid from us. But what is hidden and unspoken often stands out within the awareness field anyways and makes one wonder and focus on what is behind it).

So not really being a Finn either I just acknowledge the shared past and the cultural similarities and thus cannot assign myself to any Finn versus Saami stance. Though Indigenous Rights activists do try to put propagandist-script guilt trips on and then you end up in a situation being accused of having been the ‘Chude’ assailants of Saami – which is utterly ridiculous, when in true and actual reality our Saami side and their and our relatives were the very ones defending themselves against those assailants, which later inspired the Saami movie “Pathfinder”.

So when did this happen? Where is the famed old cultural heritage intuitive wisdom, etiäinen, trances etc.etc. etc. that all of our old people shared in (still do), to be replaced by these New Age propaganda-script-native-identity (hit and totally miss) “blind archers”?
Where is this influence coming from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulsInMotion
What I do know is that our family presents more of the truly Finnish features than many modern "Finns" do, that is the epicanthic fold, high cheekbones and so on.
The other side of our family (the most Saami admixed) also had those ‘Asiatic’ looks.

*

I have posted some music from our deep (or recent) ancestry related Siberian lands + some Saami music on next page, if you are interested:
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...t=95838&page=6

*
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 14-01-2018, 11:29 AM
SoulsInMotion SoulsInMotion is offline
Knower
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 207
  SoulsInMotion's Avatar
I'll have a listen when I'm more awake.

My father's side of the family is from around Lake Ladoga going back a few centuries. Honestly I know nothing of this Finnish vs Saami thing going on either. Others brought it up to me here but I haven't had energy to get into it.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 14-01-2018, 01:43 PM
sentient sentient is offline
Knower
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 137
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulsInMotion
I'll have a listen when I'm more awake.

My father's side of the family is from around Lake Ladoga going back a few centuries. Honestly I know nothing of this Finnish vs Saami thing going on either. Others brought it up to me here but I haven't had energy to get into it.
Just as well then.
Of course Saami has to have their rights, but sometimes the line separating Finns from Saami is not that clear.
Here 2 simple pictures showing different peoples genetic closeness/relatedness to Saami:
SA=Norwegian Saami, FI=Finns, SWE=Swedish and NO=Norwegians etc. etc.
(NO6 is half Norwegian–half North Saami & SWE7 and SWE11 are Swedish Saami).

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-f2XjRgVoy6...1600/Finns.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ukNMoBHLSY...ndinavians.jpg

You would most likely sit in the Karelian cluster. Lake Ladoga was a proto-Saami area, some moved up North and became ‘Saami’ – others stayed.
Just imagine if they had used Finnish Saami there as the reference SA-population instead of Norwegians - how close would we then be on the plot!

*
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old Today, 08:42 PM
sentient sentient is offline
Knower
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 137
 
Where we all sit genetically (if anyone is interested).
Eurasia and Americas:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14Th...PD38okYTS/view

Downloadable pics for clear viewing:
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/201...7-ancient.html

*
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums