The dark side of meditation

[Gem]

Originally Posted by ajay00

It is actually rules and principles of a methodology , which if observed with precision and faith, enables one to attain the spiritual results stated.

Indeed, the practice of meditation is obviously beneficial, and the benefits are well researched, documented and applied... but the sensitive delicacies associated with proper practice are not widely understood.

Dogma has not much of a place in an ashram, especially a buddhist one.

I'm pretty experienced in the area having meditated quite a bit and also acted as trustee (treasurer), and am fairly familiar with the ins and outs of these sorts of institutions, so I feel that I can allude to the problem areas associated with formalised, organised modalities. I was inspired too by Krishnamurti's speech 'The Truth is a Pathless Land', in which he explains his reasons for disbanding the Order of the Star of India. I'm not against the institutions, but the issues that come with them can be noted along with the attributes.

O monks and wise men, just as a goldsmith would test his gold by burning, cutting and rubbing it, so must you examine my words and accept them, not merely out of reverence for me. -- Buddha

Reverence is quite predominant, despite what Buddha might have said, but there is a worthy respect in such eloquent teachings, and in my view, what really needs to to be taken to heart is, Buddha is not a man named Guatama; Buddha is the nature of all people, all beings. One would do better to have such reverence as applied to their own nature, rather than attribute it to the symbolic figure of another man.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by The Back Seat

It's not that meditation causes negative side effects, it's that meditation causes awareness.

Life deals us all types of experiences and they aren't always positive. Unaware people don't realize that these negative experiences can get trapped in us and reek havoc on your emotional and physical bodies. These energies can remain inside of us and lead to issues.

I think that's a succinct summary.

So what's happens when someone starts meditating (seriously, and repetitively)? They start to turn their focus (intent) inward, as opposed to outward (materialistic). So someone that has suffered previously in their life, will most likely find negativities that they didn't realize were there. these negative energies have been trapped in the emotional/physical body. Trapping energy in our bodies allows us to not experience them. While we may not have to experience trapped negative energies in our body, they stay there and damage our spirit.

I agree to a point, but not to the point that these damage our spirit. The spirit is ever-pure and indestructible, and ultimately unaffected by passing experience.

So when we become inwardly aware, we allow these negative energies to flow. Flowing energy is energy that we feel, and experience. Therefore all that backed up negative energy must be allowed to flow before we can free ourselves of it. When we release that negative energy, we will feel it and it can be painful.

So, sometimes allowing ourselves to cry in response to negativity, is the best possible response. Crying is a natural channel to let negativity flow. With practice we find other grounding technique allow us to observe the negativities and just let them flow on by with out trapping them.

You will find stories about danger with meditation. But I can guarantee those stories come from first time experiences where the initial flow of trapped negative energy can be overwhelming. Ask anyone who is experienced with meditation, and they will most likely have positive things to say.

None-the-less, the complications one can encounter through meditation practice can be difficult to navigate, and that's a delicate area which is not particularly well understood in general, however, successfully navigating these kinds of hardships does eventuate in benefit, just as you describe.

The initial awakening when we first experience that flow, is very intense. This experience is referred to as the spiritual awakening, and everyone's initial flow of trapped energy will be different. We must clean the house before is shines.

I like that metaphor!!!

Meditation is simply a way of relaxing and opening up our awareness. What you intend you use it for, well that's up to you. If you want to use that awareness to cause pain, that is definitely possible. But people that open up awareness typically find that positive energy is the right path.

Yes. One might liken it to the osmosis of body and mind.

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by Gem

Reverence is quite predominant, despite what Buddha might have said, but there is a worthy respect in such eloquent teachings, and in my view, what really needs to to be taken to heart is, Buddha is not a man named Guatama; Buddha is the nature of all people, all beings. One would do better to have such reverence as applied to their own nature, rather than attribute it to the symbolic figure of another man.

The reverence could also be predominant, because people have tested the efficacy of his teachings as suggested and found it to be satisfactory in producing results.

If however people revere Buddhist teachings in a dogmatic manner inspite of Buddha's directives, it is not Buddha's fault.

Buddha nature is indeed intrinsic to all sentient beings, but the degree to which it is manifested obviously varies.

[nothingexpert]

I don't watch much tv but tonight I saw an ad that started with a yoga session with the protagonist being slapped (lightly, on the shoulder) for starring at the girl in front of him as she was bending over and then a car the advertisement was for, fell onto their table and the protagonist runs off with his mates and drives away excitedly after obviously disturbing and making a joke of the practice. I think it's another good example supporting the fact the 'establishment' is feeling threatened. I don't believe this is the first thing on tv I have seen that has belittled something to do with spirituality either and I think it goes to show how much power and influence the media has on its audiences...

Originally Posted by Gem

As I say, mindfulness is, like, all the rage these days.

On the basis that everything is spiritual, fine. But in the mundane world it's wrapping up "thinking" and "introspection" in some fancy title. Being aware? Isn't that being mindful?

The problem is that so many "non-spiritual" have long lost any contact with thinking about themselves, introspecting and imagining, thanks to nannying and the media - television.... Here I often read about newcomers who can't visualise, genuinely seeking help. They can't visualise because they can't imagine - because the visual is always being thrown in their face. They can't think about themselves because they're taught by the consumerist High Priesthood to concern themselves with what everyone else thinks of them and..."buy this product because you have a problem". Look at cosmetics ads!

SO, nice it's bracketed under "spirituality" but a shame that non-spiritual people are being taught these faculties as a technique....and the troops will come in if people start dropping out. The practice is safe as long as most of its followers don't regard it as spiritual. Tell them it seriously is and I'll wager half of them will chuck it.

'Spiritual society' has its own peculiar status quo.

And once that threatens that of the establishment, steps will be taken. Happened so often before. Look at early Christianity. Even so, the authorities can easily get religious fundamentalists on their side through funding and granting a nefarious authority - like turning a blind eye to their attempt to torch the Sorcerer's Apprentice shop in Leeds a few years ago. Born-again Christians.

Fact is the peudo-"gurus" preaching their waffle online and elsewhere is good because it's innocuous. As long as Authorities think that's where it's at, we're reasonably safe.

Even so, better to keep a low profile....

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

On the basis that everything is spiritual, fine. But in the mundane world it's wrapping up "thinking" and "introspection" in some fancy title. Being aware? Isn't that being mindful?

Being aware, yep.

The problem is that so many "non-spiritual" have long lost any contact with thinking about themselves, introspecting and imagining, thanks to nannying and the media - television.... Here I often read about newcomers who can't visualise, genuinely seeking help. They can't visualise because they can't imagine - because the visual is always being thrown in their face. They can't think about themselves because they're taught by the consumerist High Priesthood to concern themselves with what everyone else thinks of them and..."buy this product because you have a problem". Look at cosmetics ads!

Yes, they sell cosmetic things under the pretext of 'a problem', and the mindfulness is being catagorised as an aspect of Cognitive Behaviour Therapy, which is a problem/solution approach to therapy.

SO, nice it's bracketed under "spirituality" but a shame that non-spiritual people are being taught these faculties as a technique....and the troops will come in if people start dropping out. The practice is safe as long as most of its followers don't regard it as spiritual. Tell them it seriously is and I'll wager half of them will chuck it.

And once that threatens that of the establishment, steps will be taken. Happened so often before. Look at early Christianity. Even so, the authorities can easily get religious fundamentalists on their side through funding and granting a nefarious authority - like turning a blind eye to their attempt to torch the Sorcerer's Apprentice shop in Leeds a few years ago. Born-again Christians.

Fact is the peudo-"gurus" preaching their waffle online and elsewhere is good because it's innocuous. As long as Authorities think that's where it's at, we're reasonably safe.

Even so, better to keep a low profile....

Mindfulness meditation is a very common part of psychological counseling now days... and it seems to be catagorised within the cognitive behavioural approach mostly, so it's openly visible and an integral part of the establishment. There's reems of peer reviewed research documents and it's well established in the psychology discourse - there's a new kind of 'meditation expert' and there are leading authorities on the subject. It's emerging as a normal practice in capital society, and there's good money to be made from it... which pseudo-gurus well know. I think the psychological approach is safer than the misguided online guru approach, but I still doubt that the deeper implications are properly understood, because there can be a dark side that emerges from this kind of practice if it's not approached in a proper way.

The only time I've ever run into trouble with meditation is when it brought up things I was not really ready to deal with. I had to get through that stuff and I didn't really want to, not at the time. Overall I'd say meditation has definitely helped me a lot. I was abused a lot as a kid, bullied. I think learning to meditate as a teen probably saved my life, seriously. Without it I'd have likely been in real trouble...

[redstone]

Originally Posted by Ravenspirit

The only time I've ever run into trouble with meditation is when it brought up things I was not really ready to deal with. I had to get through that stuff and I didn't really want to, not at the time. Overall I'd say meditation has definitely helped me a lot. I was abused a lot as a kid, bullied. I think learning to meditate as a teen probably saved my life, seriously. Without it I'd have likely been in real trouble...

It's good to hear it got you through Raven, meditation was the only way out for me to..otherwise I would have been in trouble myself, the opening up during meditation was the biggest door I've ever walked through, the space and clarity it gave me was hard to describe, yet there were a few shocks for me during that process..namely the natural awakening of energy in the dantien, I obviously built up the energy to the extent it burst in to life moving to the next energy centre, even though I heard about it often enough it did not prepare me for the shock, that was over 30 years ago and its still moving, once it's opened up it stayed open...chi kung has helped, but its a lot gentler with me nowadays.

it was the best move I ever made!

[redstone]

Due to the high rate of soldiers coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan committing suicide and having post traumatic stress disorder, the American army is introducing meditation as part of the warrior mind training, they have conducted a lot of research in to this already taking blood and saliva samples and MRI imaging of the brains to see how those who meditated and those who did not meditate coped under simulated battle conditions, and those who meditated recovered a lot quicker psychologically and physically…they also coped better with problem solving under those conditions also.

Is this another dark aspect to the use of meditation techniques being applied to make more efficient soldiers, and although it will help them individually is it going to make them more cold and ruthless in there craft like the samurai warrior was, seeming though people wanting to join the army or marines want to be the best soldier they can be…. How is it all going to turn out I wonder?

I’m definitely for soldiers and frontline service people like the police having this tool to regulate there stress and handle psychic trauma before they go out to these battle fields…what do you all think?

[Silver]

Thank you redstone for starting this thread - long overdue.

And thanks Gem for your thoughtful contributions.

And everyone else, too...


ps -- I've barely tried 'true' meditation, but I do practice mindfulness every day and it's amazing. I think for a person to handle the unexpected stuff that may arise during meditation and deep introspection well, is to have in place a solid moral compass of some sort.