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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Meditation

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  #11  
Old 27-02-2017, 11:28 AM
A human Being A human Being is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Surfer
Apparently patience is the key ;D
Absolutely! The issue for me isn't the arising of thoughts, it's how we respond when they do arise. Very often, meditators will do one of two things: they'll either get lost in a series of thoughts, or they'll attempt to push the thought away, creating an inner contraction (they might even end up doing both). The most effective response, for me, is simply to acknowledge the thought and stay relaxed, so my meditation practice is largely, as you say, an exercise in patience.
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What is your experience right now, in this moment?
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  #12  
Old 04-03-2017, 06:37 PM
rijhumal rijhumal is offline
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Lot of things learned from this discussion
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  #13  
Old 04-03-2017, 11:52 PM
passnthru2 passnthru2 is offline
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I don't believe you can meditate and do a mantra.. you do one or the other.. a mantra will can put you into a state of bliss or heightened relaxation. meditation on the other hand trains the mind to be in the present moment..it creates an entire new neural net in the brain and numerous neural interconnections. Transcendental Meditation is not meditation.. it is using a mantra to produce a specific state of mind.
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  #14  
Old 05-03-2017, 05:11 AM
markings markings is offline
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Add as much physical activity as you can. Chant the mantra aloud, or at least mouth it. Use Mala beads to 'count'. You could add a rest period one one round is completed before you do the next one. A lot of important stuff happens in rest periods, maybe even more important than in the active period. That is why athletes have switch to interval training.
You could use some music, music with embedded Solfeggio frequencies or even white noise.
You could do walking meditation, just counting steps.
You could stare a candle flame without blinking for 10 minutes, a practice suggested by Qi Gong master Dr Zhi Gang Sha. That will definitely keep your mind from wandering. Caution: make sure that you are not too close to the flame and that you don't have eye problems. You do not want the eyes drying out.
If we do a simple tasks long enough it will become automatic while preventing the mind from slipping into random activity.
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  #15  
Old 05-03-2017, 05:21 AM
shiningstars shiningstars is offline
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If you need to "keep busy" to stay quiet, that's still a weak practice.

Stick with the simple methods and persistence pays off.

shiningstars
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  #16  
Old 05-03-2017, 05:51 AM
markings markings is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiningstars
If you need to "keep busy" to stay quiet, that's still a weak practice.

Stick with the simple methods and persistence pays off.

shiningstars
There is no such thing as weak practice. There is only practice and non-practice. And if your mind is jumping around like crazy then you are doing non-practice.
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  #17  
Old 05-03-2017, 05:00 PM
shiningstars shiningstars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markings
There is no such thing as weak practice. There is only practice and non-practice. And if your mind is jumping around like crazy then you are doing non-practice.

I'm glad you're not a teacher then, markings, for now.

In many forms of meditation, the clear proven instruction is persistence. Cultivation of samadhi through awareness of the breath, or otherwise, just awareness of what is happening, is sufficient. Each time the student remembers and brings their awareness back to the present, the breath, or otherwise, this is in itself pure and essential practice.

A busy, distracted mind, through days and years of practice quietens down significantly through the simplest technique of mindfulness meditation. One should not mix that up with music or be fearful of one's own mind, or imagine incorrectly that a "busy mind" is non-practice. That contradicts every form of Buddhist meditation instruction except for perhaps Pure Land Buddhism which favors mantras. Apart from that your statement is grossly incorrect.

Simple, consistent practice will break through eventually as much as the simplicity of love nurtures in tremendous ways.

Meditative awareness is worth cultivating, in the same way that daily pushups manifest muscles, even though it is not evident on a day to day basis that one's muscles are developing. Faith is therefore also valuable, and essential.

There is nothing wrong with people using mantras or other techniques if it is in the context of their systematic practice method or martial arts formula, but for Buddhist meditation practices, including all major Buddhist schools, one follows Shakyamuni Buddha's instructions of mindfulness meditation - which includes awareness of thought, if it is there, and breath etc. Over time, the power of this simple technique is evident.

We respond to you because the myth you have presented i.e. that a busy mind is non-practice is both incorrect and misleading for those who have the intent to cultivate the strength of daily meditative awareness. Au contraire, the daily practice of sitting down and meditating is powerful beyond measure, and far from being a "problem", a busy mind is just a natural course to start with. Practice furthers.

Thanks for this dialogue.

shiningstars
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  #18  
Old 05-03-2017, 06:08 PM
markings markings is offline
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shiningstar,

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Hi, I meditate, with like a year break, for about 4 years. I try to focus on a mantra, but the mind uses every opportunity to disturb the silence in between the chanted mantras(i say them mentally actually).
Three years of practice with no seemingly no result, and you advocate to just go on as usual?
Not unusual, I have heard of people who do this for 30 years - with no result.
With what justification do we ask people to waste their time like that?
How is that supposed to change the world for the better?

Tai Chi, as an energy practice, traditionally claims that changes will manifest after about 100 days. Let's be generous and triple that. That means after one year one should at least get some result of some sorts. It may not be what one expects or hopes for, but some result should manifest and the teacher should help the student to discover it.
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  #19  
Old 05-03-2017, 06:19 PM
shiningstars shiningstars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markings
shiningstar,


Three years of practice with no seemingly no result, and you advocate to just go on as usual?
Not unusual, I have heard of people who do this for 30 years - with no result.
With what justification do we ask people to waste their time like that?
How is that supposed to change the world for the better?

Tai Chi, as an energy practice, traditionally claims that changes will manifest after about 100 days. Let's be generous and triple that. That means after one year one should at least get some result of some sorts. It may not be what one expects or hopes for, but some result should manifest and the teacher should help the student to discover it.

Relax, markings, there is no race here.

As to the OP, that sounds like a viewpoint similar to yours above - seeing internal chatter occurrence as a problem, perhaps subconsciously fearing and contracting from it, as opposed to staying with mindfulness practice, which is to simply revert attention back to the present moment, or the breath, even if thoughts are there. {and let's face it, no-one starts or does meditation with an immediately quiet mind}

I dare say that if there is any reason - according to you - that there is no "progress" {if we must use that word}, it is because one views internal chatter as an impediment - and maybe has been led to believe that a mantra/music/moving are tools used to 'clamp out' thought, in a manner of speaking.

These methods, including trance like approaches, are not meditation methods I {personally} favor.

Thought is not the issue, neither is a busy mind. The right place to start meditation confidently, calmly, respectfully is with what one has in one's toolkit, which includes a chattering mind for most people. Through practice, and a strengthening of inner concentration/mindfulness, the mind does acquiesce and a much more peaceful countenance is very real.

The intent, and practiced ability to return back to the breath, present state, when one is pulled away by the thoughts - returning confidently, calmly, consistently, patiently is a practice that yields result, in my experience - as simple as it sounds, it's magnificent.

shiningstars
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  #20  
Old 06-03-2017, 04:42 AM
markings markings is offline
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I see that all the talk is about the "busy mind". When I argue for visible results then it is for results in the real world of living and doing.
For me it is not acceptable to meditate for years and see no change in terms of better relationships, improved efficiency, in short in the overall better functioning in this worldly life. If such results do show then we wouldn't care about the chattering mind, would we? But they apparently don't show, or are considered so insignificant that they are not even worth mentioning.

This is a contradiction of the 'all is connected' principle. If meditation works then it must have an effect on our everyday life, and IMO it is entirely justified that such effects must show up within a reasonably short period of time.
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