is astral travel just a dream

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Labyrinthus

This is a great question and there are some great replies.

Based on my experiences I have come to the conclusion that most of what people call astral projection is basically a lucid dream, at best. I have projected hundreds of times and I did a series of experiments in order to prove OBE status -- things like reading a random playing card set up high somewhere so I could not see it as I was walking around the house in the waking, physical state. What I found was that during AP the card would morph as I looked at it. Also, it would multiply into many cards in my hand if I picked it up.

Eventually I reduced the sampling to just the face cards because I noticed that my hit rate on colors and symbols was much higher than reading the exact number. I could score correctly on the Jack of Diamonds way better than something like the Five of Clubs.

I guess that makes statistical sense.

The quality of clarity and the reality quotient was varying constantly... like a dream.


I am still okay with people saying, "I know I am leaving my body because that is what it feels like" because I have said the same thing. I really do 'feel' a body getting up and floating around. But I recognize the issues others have brought up and it is a valid concern. Increasing the accuracy of observation is a challenge.

[Milo333]

This is all quite interesting , wanting to know about the astral
but those who want to know have their consciousness filled with other realities they than wish to compare that to
meaning if you read a book or take in information from some one else ,its not your own reality , and with your own self you need to visit the astral
a free own self , freed from limiting rules and regulations of what is and what is not made by other and taken upon you as truths and realities .

you sold your freedom to those rules , lost your freedom to be you as you are .

why have no self knowing things ? but always the need for others to tell you what its like ?

yes that's what education has done to you , teachers telling you what your reality is like , and yes its a very limited one . and all that falls outside it is to be doubted ,,, why doubt ? there is no more Independence knowing self left

just a soul filled with others their knowledge, insights and realities , realities that are often shared, creating an even greater binding effect to those in them
I see no wrong in this , each has its own reality as it should be ,that's the freedom of souls to create . if it has limiting effects to those inside , this can be understood how ever.

[Altair]

Milo.. dude, it's impossible to be free of baggage and impressions from our world and things we read and hear. Even a child's experience is going to be influenced by something from this world.
In contrast.. I would say you can embrace the 'baggage'.. just make sure it is the right sort of baggage. If you've been inspired by wonderful stories and if that's what you want to see elsewhere or in dreams then all the more power to you. And the 'astral' is not going to be objective anyway.. it's not 'Newtonian'.. LOL.

[Lynn]

Astral Projection / Dreaming / Lucid Dreaming

It's my opinion that astral projection, dreaming and lucid dreaming are intertwined along the same lines. The difference between dreams, projection and lucid dreaming is what is at the controls the conscious part of the brain and the subconscious part of the brain functions. What often stops the Astral Journey is that we fall into that state of sleep and that we know leads us to the state of dreams. It is when we have the conscious control of our brain that we know that we are not in that dream state and we are having a pure Astral Journey. In that conscious state of Astral Travel we are the one in control of the journey on the level that hold the power with us to stop it. In the Lucid Dream state we are not in that control place, though it is known that we can alter our dreams on some levels. For the most part that brain is in that state of ‘wondering’ free from consciousness thinking taking place.

While the Lucid Dream state is a place where the OB E can and does occur, and this often is the place where the “Heavy Exit” or “Torso Exit” takes place and we find that we are suddenly falling, or having that feeling of a thud experience back into the body. What has happened here is that we bridged the gap from the dream state the subconscious brain in action to a level of semi consciousness where the thinking part of the brain steps in. We are not awake enough to fully make the next step to understand most times where we are and what is happening.

When we are awake it is our conscious brain that is in the space of dealing with the here and now, with what we need to get done and be doing at the time. When our subconscious brain takes over in sleep that is the down time, it is where we often surrender to the fantasy aspects of life that we would at times like to experience. While dreams do hold many messages for us if we learn to remember and understand them for the most part its down time for the brain and body to just be.

Lucid Dreams-

It is said that it’s a higher frequency state to our dreams. In a Lucid Dream you can control or alter the events in your dream in the state that you realize your dreaming.

It is said you can learn to have Lucid Dreams and even share in a dream with another. When you go to bed at night simply put a plan in your head what you want to dream on.

For example your out on a walk and the snow is falling; look to see how it’s covering the trees. Then try changing the dream to a nice sunny summer day. Opposite contrasts seem to work quite well.

These dreams include the physical aspect that are with dreaming, example here is flying or falling. Now with this aspect it might well not be a "dream" state one is in. In this place of flying or falling one might well be in the state of Out of Body or Astral Travel and the brain has come to consciousness enough to make you aware you’re not in the body state of being physical so it’s a rather hard landing at times back in.

Lynn

[NoOne]

Thanks for your continued input on these topics, Lynn. I'm really finding your info very useful.

What I would add, is that OBE, NDE and Lucid Dreaming are all quite similar, because you literally are outside your body in all three cases. I think I said there is connecting tissue between them, on another thread.

I've experienced all three of the above, but not always consciously. My NDE was actually very brief and was more similar to an OBEE than what is commonly reported, but I still learnt from it, despite the very painful after effects.

My definition of Lucid Dreaming is different from most, I consider a dream Lucid when you're actually THERE. So, it's not a question of control (though you can control events to a certain degree), but of awareness of your astral body.

In my view, in a Lucid Dream, you are basically astral travelling to another location, which could be pretty much anywhere in space, time, dimensions, timelines and parallel worlds. I have seen some pretty weird stuff in my astral dreams and I have experienced past and future lives as well as parallel realities.

The weird thing is, when I was astral dreaming, I was still me, but I wasn't this me. I was another me, even looked somewhat different, spoke another language and lived in another country. In that life, I was fully present and had no memory of my current life. It is hard to explain, but I'm sure a lot of people had this experience.

Similarly, in lucid or astral dreams, I often end up flying, over landscapes that are vaguely familiar, but clearly not on this earth. I even remember scaring some people on the street with my flying. I imagine that in my astral form, they must have thought me a ghost.

[Milo333]

I most use the word astral for the higher realities ? this might be the wrong word , sure their is the after life , and there are the higher realities where all the light is consciousness and created from light that way . so not as in the after life , where although it is the same but the occupants don't know it is. same as on the incarnated earth all created from light and conscious but most don't 'know'or experience it that way .For me it is , the astral reality and earth are one and over lap as one yet separated ,by how consciousnesses experiences light to manifest it self in this way pff are we there yet , no almost (lol) the soul has a triangular shape ,the lower parts are the male and female energy parts and they experience light as wave or particle in respective order ,yet the top part experiences light as free from time and mass and coming to be where its experienced. not related to an emitting source as a sun , all this can be experienced at once .I would not know how to do it other wise .it makes life most interesting , you can project or see other segments over the 'normal' reality and experience different time lines at once of things you see . and much more , see the energies , see thoughts see aura colors and much more .so no need to go to the 'astral', its all around for me and there is no distance to any place for seeing what its like there , or just send light (white) as healing energy , or pink or green as love and such things. I have met quite a few people that do things like this over the past years

[Lynn]

Hello

How you know that you have travelled is getting information that you have no foundation to know, where your taken to a place by at times beings that are in the Light or need help to find the Light. Or at times taken to where you have maybe had a past life. I have had this happen. Spirits or Ghosts (Earth Bound) can take you out of your body to work with them.

When being taken to where you had a past life you come back with information that you can validate, location, names, dates ect. This I feel cannot come into a dream.

Lynn

[sea-dove]

Originally Posted by Answer

If you can leave your body and go to a distant location and bring back information later verified as being true for that place and time there are a LOT of scientists who would love to get you in their lab.

When you leave your physical body and have OBE you leave your ego behind. No egoistic agenda will work during OBE. You wont be an secret agent spying on people etc. Egoism goes away with physical body and so your missions to prove something to anyone. When you die you wont need to prove something to anyone.

When Im OBE, Im exactly the same person as I am now, with the same ego.

[sea-dove]

Originally Posted by Answer

In a dream you are watching in OBE you are participating as real as here right now.

People can have lucid dreams in which they are participating and it can feel just as real as right now with vivid lucid dreams. One can't really distinguish between the two things by that.

and for beginners esp vivid lucid dreams may be mistaken for OBEs. I've heard many a beginner on having their very first lucid dream say "oh boy that felt so real"

[sea-dove]

Originally Posted by David mc

I myself have never had an OBE so it's hard for me to comprehend what they are,but from a skeptical point of view how do we know there not just created by the brain.your views very welcome

Anyone who has actually managed to prove to themselves that OBEs are real will know they are not created by the brain. I've had experiences in which have shown me this.

eg I was able to see and find out about something I had not had any idea at all about during an OBE.

eg a gift a boyfriend had brought me, I could read what was on it, exactly what was written on it and see it hidden up on top of my bedroom wardrobe while was drifting up by the ceiling and when I spotted something there, I astrally went over to it to get a closer look. This whole incident caused my boyfriend to be very unhappy with me and accuse me of spying on him as he would not believe I'd found out about this gift during an OBE.


Another time while I was trying to do an OBE, I moved a physical chair, it went sliding out of way. It had actually been put into the spot where I was trying to manifest myself during an OBE... this which was witnessed by my daughter who was in that room making breakfast at the time, scaring the **** out of her. Daughter having a fright over this shocked me back fully. (lol I'm surprised the site blocked the word I used as it was not too bad a word)

I've also seen a photo taken by someone in a spiritual group I used to be in (this was before everyone had internet), in which 2 of the other friends who were experienced astral projectors arranged with this other to astrally project to a spot and he take photos of that spot. Anyway, sure enough they are both there in a photo like 2 ghosts.