Emptiness and the One

Originally Posted by Gracey

besides, the bible was re arranged so many times, who knows what the original words were.

When it comes to the OT the Jews would probably disagree.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by jiraiyaNOmonogatari

thanks for the explanation everyone, I think I understand now.

but let me check if I got this right.

So you are saying that our minds have a ceiling, and that ceiling prevents us from comprehending beyond the existence of "something and nothing", and whats beyond that is emptiness, which is the ultimate reality.
*phew*....these are some tough concepts to understand, I think my ceiling is working. lol

But all this leads to another question!! what is this reality that is infinite, formless, nameless and one? what is emptiness?

Emptiness is a state of mind... it's like an endless space in meditation and it's just the empty mind. There is prior to emptiness but it has nothing to do with notions of something nothing emptiness or things.

Things like the mind's ceiling are merely another notion, another of minds own imaginings, and it's best not to accept these limited terms, and see for yourself, and geniune curiosity will lead to discovery as it always does.

Originally Posted by jiraiyaNOmonogatari

So you are saying that our minds have a ceiling, and that ceiling prevents us from comprehending beyond the existence of "something and nothing", and whats beyond that is emptiness, which is the ultimate reality.
*phew*....these are some tough concepts to understand, I think my ceiling is working. lol

But all this leads to another question!! what is this reality that is infinite, formless, nameless and one? what is emptiness?

The ceiling is not in the mind, the ceiling is in the thoughts, concepts, ideas. IOW, the ceiling is in some of the tools the mind uses, not the mind itself.
The ceiling appears when something is split into dualistic terms, e.g. inspected, analyzed, conceptualized, made to fit models, etc.
Before we begin that process there is only observation and perception. "Then the tree is only green" says Seung Sahn, the thing in itself, and not beautiful, big, well shaped or misshaped, all the things we might add.

Originally Posted by jiraiyaNOmonogatari

thanks for the explanation everyone, I think I understand now.

but let me check if I got this right.

So you are saying that our minds have a ceiling, and that ceiling prevents us from comprehending beyond the existence of "something and nothing", and whats beyond that is emptiness, which is the ultimate reality.
*phew*....these are some tough concepts to understand, I think my ceiling is working. lol

But all this leads to another question!! what is this reality that is infinite, formless, nameless and one? what is emptiness?

I wish I could answer that question haha :P its been called nameless for a reason; words cannot describe it..

We comprehend through dualities. We understand something to be hot only because we know what cold is in relation or vice-versa. We understand something to be tall only because we know what short is in relation and vice-versa. Is and isn't define each other. This is how our whole mode of communication came to be and this is how our mind functions. Our mind functions by organizing these relative conventions and deductively producing more conventions.

Happiness is a state of mind that we experience from time to time; it is an integral part of certain situations, such as being with a friend or eating a good dinner. To mentally abstract this condition of happiness, as if it were something in itself, and then make it an object of desire is a fatal mistake. BUT THAT'S WHAT WE HUMANS DO ALL THE TIME. "Happiness" thus becomes an external object, as it were - something to be attained - just as "unhappiness" is a thing to be avoided.

All of us acquire a set of values as we grow up. Ordinarily, these are the "conventional values" of the society in which we live, values that were first taught to us when we were children. Having such values seems to be an important part of a successful life; our values shape our goals. HOWEVER, these are CONCEPTS only; they have no corresponding reality in nature. What is bad is only bad because we recognize it as such. Something is "bad" and therefore makes us unhappy not because it really is bad in some objective sense, but rather because we have decided that it is bad.

If, at some deep level, we decide that having lots of money is good, then it must follow that having very little money is bad. Of course, neither one is objectively good or bad (nothing is objectively good or bad!). But once the decision is made and the concept is formed, it follows that we will SEEK to achieve the conceptual reality that WE have defined as "good" and thus, hopefully, be happy.

Ills are only ills because one recognizes them as such. If one would once forsake his or her habit of labeling things good or bad, desirable or undesirable, then the SELF-MADE ills would disappear and no longer be seen as ills.

Emptiness is what the world would be without these conceptualized definitions.

Hopefully I've outlined the difference between nothingness and emptiness a little more clear.

:) Hope this helps

What pre-dawn said...

haha :P

There's a wonderful Buddhist notion that usually goes by the name of thatness/suchness/thusness, these technical terms all mean the same thing which is the observation or perception of something empty of conventional knowledge.

Check it.

Yes I understand the difference now, thank you all.

sorry to bother you with so many questions, this is my last, what do I learn from all this? what is the point of understanding emptiness?

Originally Posted by jiraiyaNOmonogatari

Yes I understand the difference now, thank you all.

sorry to bother you with so many questions, this is my last, what do I learn from all this? what is the point of understanding emptiness?

When one understands this one sees, feels, and knows that we just make things up, we add all the stuff we get excited about and argue and fight over. 6 billion people and all just make up their own representations of the world.

Why should any one of them be more important than another? It is just thought of equal ultimate non-importance.

Forget about thoughts, do not identify with them, be in the body and with its senses. From there we can make it a good day or a bad day, the choice is yours, and you know it is yours.

Therein lies peace and harmony. If you chose so.

what christians know as the holy trinity. In his book Revelations of 2012, The Prophet of Lifestates that there is also a trinity at birth (sperm-egg-embryo, death, spirit-original soul-body (which falls away).